20 replies to this topic

[Welshiejon]

im about to make sproket to go on the crank to drive the water pump and thought i would put it out there in case anyone wants one the standard sptoket is 42 tooth and is to big a dia to run if you remove the balance shafts as the chain hits the spray nozel so smaller sproket is required and if you going to rev it to 8000 it prob a good idea to just got to figure the teeth out so i dont need a half link ill get drawings up later

[TheHood]

I'm interersted, although too late for my engine build. What's your plan? Run a shorter chain direct from the crank to the pump?

[slindborg]

so you have made the fabled FULL delete parts up?

[Welshiejon]

they on the drawing board and be on the machine mid week

[slindborg]

Vocky has pics of the one/two off that Lotus did many years back.. I did get hold of the company that made it but they were less than keen to remake it

[Welshiejon]

i have a issue with the guide to the right on that one it is on the drive side that causes friction which is power

[vocky]

you simply will not notice any power difference between the short chain and idler gear method, for me the biggest worry was shortening the chain - would the new join hold up to the abuse, may be it would, may be it would snap. Still I moved on from that and simply removed the complete water pump/balancer shaft chain set up - job done

[Welshiejon]

i run an electric water pump on the s2000 engie and it runs well but for the road mechanical is less bother

[Exmantaa]

A guy here in Holland made special guides for the short chain delete, but his biggest problem was/is a short chain. He could not get it (made) and couldn't find anybody who wanted to shorten the hardened chain. Details: http://www.speedster...r=asc&start=150

[Welshiejon]

Yea 7mm timming chain is not standard but it shortens no bother as race engines are more regularly serviced dont think short chain is worth the worry

[alanoo]

There will be close to nothing to gain in horsepower between the idler method and the short chain one. There's more to gain by reducing the (stupidly high) oil pressure for example... and that's still not a full 1 hp. You should work on billet oil pump gears if you plan to go high RPM, with a thinner one DLC coated as used in BTCC + the lower oil pressure, there should be some gains Only way to gain something really sensible on the water and oil pumps would be to use electrical PWM controlled ones, with a relation to engine load and temperature.

Edited by alanoo, 18 May 2010 - 11:02 AM.

[Welshiejon]

There will be close to nothing to gain in horsepower between the idler method and the short chain one.

There's more to gain by reducing the (stupidly high) oil pressure for example... and that's still not a full 1 hp.
You should work on billet oil pump gears if you plan to go high RPM, with a thinner one DLC coated as used in BTCC + the lower oil pressure, there should be some gains


Only way to gain something really sensible on the water and oil pumps would be to use electrical PWM controlled ones, with a relation to engine load and temperature.

if you point me in the direction of what you mean im sure i can do something
lol
electric water pump needs near 10 amps wen running dont you think this is more load on the engine than the chain?

[vocky]

the water pump consumes 5 bhp on a standard engine ('Dude' carried out a test with a z22se engine on an engine test bed), I doubt an extra 10Amps would even use 1 bhp

Edited by vocky, 18 May 2010 - 03:40 PM.

[Welshiejon]

just had a v* on the dyno tonight and the elec water pump electric lift pump and one fan 26 Amps now thats a lot

[slindborg]

but at 12V thats only 312Watts and at 14V its 364Watts...... so less than half a KW of "loss"

[rsg]

You should work on billet oil pump gears if you plan to go high RPM, with a thinner one DLC coated as used in BTCC + the lower oil pressure, there should be some gains

if you point me in the direction of what you mean im sure i can do something
lol

I'm guessing he means a set of these. I think Vocky is running them from what I remember of his old build thread.

[alanoo]

Yep, but these are a simple copy of the original design.


The original gears are weak and soft


Which leads to issues such as blocking the oil pressure valve with these small particules.

The GM Racing stuff is much harder so it resolves this issue + much stronger so it could eventually work with alloy pulleys without exploding.

Still it does not sorts the fact the oil pressure and oil flow are too high for nothing except rubbing horsepower.
OE gears are 14.5mm thick, BTCC one are 10mm, then they make a flat spacer for the 4+mm left. All is DLC coated and the oil pressure valve springs are changed for 5 bar pressure at max rpm.


But honestly these are useless details for engines like ours, we are far from looking for the last 1 or 2 missing bhp...

[Welshiejon]

Yep, but these are a simple copy of the original design.


The original gears are weak and soft


Which leads to issues such as blocking the oil pressure valve with these small particules.

The GM Racing stuff is much harder so it resolves this issue + much stronger so it could eventually work with alloy pulleys without exploding.

Still it does not sorts the fact the oil pressure and oil flow are too high for nothing except rubbing horsepower.
OE gears are 14.5mm thick, BTCC one are 10mm, then they make a flat spacer for the 4+mm left. All is DLC coated and the oil pressure valve springs are changed for 5 bar pressure at max rpm.

Speak for yourself i want to ring every hp out of this

But honestly these are useless details for engines like ours, we are far from looking for the last 1 or 2 missing bhp...

[vocky]

I'm guessing he means a set of these. I think Vocky is running them from what I remember of his old build thread.

Maxr and myself have the GM oil pump gears fitted

[alanoo]

And I am using an OE cheapo set, steam hardened