21 replies to this topic

[Geir Haugen]

I have just bought a Saab 2.0 turbo engine. The plan is to convert it to a naturaly aspirated engine. I want to go for the shorter stroke of the 2 litre, and hopefully get a litle more rev-happy engine. I have just finished dismantling the Saab-engine, and it seems the previous ovner(s)not have been changing oil to often. The inside looks like it have been filled with tar. The bearings looked very nice tho. I am also focused on weigth, and will try to remove grams where possible. The 2 litre crank have 4 counterweigths instead of the 8 on the 2,2 and it weighs 14,5 kgs. Does anybody know how much the 2.2 crank weighs? The Saab-engine is from a 2002, and have a 60-2 triggerwheel. Does the 2,2-engine (2001) have the same? If not, does the latest models have?

[The Batman]

The trigger wheel will make this a perfect conversion for a z20let ecu transplant which courtenays are currently ironing out the final pieces! Good luck

[Exmantaa]

Is this an all aluminum B207 engine? Thought these were fitted in the Saab 9-3 from 2003 on... Talk to Alanoo here for NA power.

[Geir Haugen]

Yes, I think it´s called B207. It´s basicly the same engine as the Speedster/VX220 2.2 with a shorter stroke, lower comp-ratio and a turbocharger.

[rsg]

to the project, will read with interest

[vocky]

you will need to replace the pistons as they are low compression, the oil cooler can be plumbed into the heater circuit, you will also need to block off the turbo oil return in the side of the block. The flywheel has more bolts for the crank than the z22se and is either a dualmass or spaced as per the dualmass, so get a custom flywheel or use a different gearbox bellhousing (vectra C z22se) Almost forgot, you cannot use the z22se ECU with the saab crank (60-2 saab, 7-2 z22se), so you will need a standalone ecu to run it. The conversion has already been done, plenty of info on www.z22se.co.uk

[Exmantaa]

Yes, I think it´s called B207. It´s basicly the same engine as the Speedster/VX220 2.2 with a shorter stroke, lower comp-ratio and a turbocharger.

Yes. I have the same block in the garage, but it's the US 2.0LSJ supercharged version.
Same 9,5 CR etc. Look in the US for LSJ parts like pistons etc. It has an 8 bolt crank and should be the same pattern as the older C20XE/LET flywheels. As said, 60-2 trigger will work with Z20LET or the US LSJ ecu's. Or fully stand-alone if you ditch the ETB.

[jameso]

Sounds an interesting project

[alanoo]

I have 2 spare B207 Saab engines, both were originally planned to go high revving N/A... then I found the stupid crank was a 4 counterweigths stuff so it was useless for that application... By chance I have at least one Eagle 2.2 forged crank The 2.0 86mm stroke one maybe used later in a 90mm sleeved Harroped engine (z22SE crank is 17.4 Kg if I remember correctly). I'm late in the N/A power race now, speak to vocky if you want some advice, he won by going the easy route choosing ITBs

Edited by alanoo, 29 June 2010 - 02:41 PM.

[vocky]

If you fit a 2.2 crank into the 2.0 block you need to check that the pistons don't hit the oil jets

[Geir Haugen]

...
then I found the stupid crank was a 4 counterweigths stuff so it was useless for that application...

Why is 4 counterweights useless? I kinda liked the idea of a lighter crank, both for revs and the weight og the car.

[alanoo]

If you fit a 2.2 crank into the 2.0 block you need to check that the pistons don't hit the oil jets

Or just Dremeltweak the pistons

...
then I found the stupid crank was a 4 counterweigths stuff so it was useless for that application...

Why is 4 counterweights useless? I kinda liked the idea of a lighter crank, both for revs and the weight og the car.

Crap at high rpm, bad dynamic balance, bhp loss, heavy crank torsion, bearing load and so on...

Edited by alanoo, 29 June 2010 - 04:25 PM.

[Geir Haugen]

If you fit a 2.2 crank into the 2.0 block you need to check that the pistons don't hit the oil jets

Or just Dremeltweak the pistons

...
then I found the stupid crank was a 4 counterweigths stuff so it was useless for that application...

Why is 4 counterweights useless? I kinda liked the idea of a lighter crank, both for revs and the weight og the car.

Crap at high rpm, bad dynamic balance, bhp loss, heavy crank torsion, bearing load and so on...

When you say high rpm, do you mean 8000 or 10000? How do you know the dynamic balance is bad? Are you speaking about this crank specially or cranks with 4 counterweigths in general?

[alanoo]

Crank with 4 in general 8000 would be still reasonable, 8500 less

[vocky]

I'm currently building a hybrid 2.2 Saab engine using a z22yh crank (so it can run a vxT ecu), so if you need to know anything just ask

[Geir Haugen]

I'm currently building a hybrid 2.2 Saab engine using a z22yh crank (so it can run a vxT ecu), so if you need to know anything just ask

Do you have a drawing showing the 2.2 triggerwheel pattern? I guess it is possible to make one to fit to the Saab-crank also.
I measured the rods yesterday, and they are 145,8mm long. Eagle has rods for the 2.2 wich are 146.4 long, and that is perfect with a set of custom pistons.

Edit: A stock rod weighs 650g, piston with rings 385g and the 23mm pin is 150g. The Eagle rods are 520g.

Edited by Geir Haugen, 01 July 2010 - 09:55 PM.

[vocky]

wiseco pistons are 289g I have a pic somewhere of the standard z22se trigger wheel (which are slots machined into the crank)

[Exmantaa]

I'm currently building a hybrid 2.2 Saab engine using a z22yh crank (so it can run a vxT ecu), so if you need to know anything just ask

Do you have a drawing showing the 2.2 triggerwheel pattern? I guess it is possible to make one to fit to the Saab-crank also.
I measured the rods yesterday, and they are 145,8mm long. Eagle has rods for the 2.2 wich are 146.4 long, and that is perfect with a set of custom pistons.

Edit: A stock rod weighs 650g, piston with rings 385g and the 23mm pin is 150g. The Eagle rods are 520g.

Why do you want to use Eagle 2,2 rods on your 2.0 engine?? (The Saab/LSJ rods are pretty strong, but maybe to heavy for your purpose?)
In the US you can buy lots of engine stuff for the 2.0LSJ block, which is basically a Saab B207 with supercharger.

Saab (and LSJ) have a 60-2 trigger wheel which is bolted onto the crank. You can make a 7-1 wheel for the Z22SE ecu, but that is a p.i.t.a. to map. I should stick to the 60-2 and use a different (Z20LET?) ECU

Edited by Exmantaa, 02 July 2010 - 09:17 AM.

[Geir Haugen]

I'm currently building a hybrid 2.2 Saab engine using a z22yh crank (so it can run a vxT ecu), so if you need to know anything just ask

Do you have a drawing showing the 2.2 triggerwheel pattern? I guess it is possible to make one to fit to the Saab-crank also.
I measured the rods yesterday, and they are 145,8mm long. Eagle has rods for the 2.2 wich are 146.4 long, and that is perfect with a set of custom pistons.

Edit: A stock rod weighs 650g, piston with rings 385g and the 23mm pin is 150g. The Eagle rods are 520g.

Why do you want to use Eagle 2,2 rods on your 2.0 engine?? (The Saab/LSJ rods are pretty strong, but maybe to heavy for your purpose?)
In the US you can buy lots of engine stuff for the 2.0LSJ block, which is basically a Saab B207 with supercharger.

Saab (and LSJ) have a 60-2 trigger wheel which is bolted onto the crank. You can make a 7-1 wheel for the Z22SE ecu, but that is a p.i.t.a. to map. I should stick to the 60-2 and use a different (Z20LET?) ECU

The Eagle rods are lighter, and suports a lighter pin.(20mm instead of 23mm)Theyare also cheap. I think I need a custom piston either way, I cant find a high cr piston for the LSJ. When it comes to ecu, I have not decidet yet. There are a intersting project going on here: http://www.verboom.n...u/obdtuner.html It looks very prommising, but has no release-date yet.

[Winstar]

The Eagle rods are lighter, and suports a lighter pin.(20mm instead of 23mm)Theyare also cheap. I think I need a custom piston either way, I cant find a high cr piston for the LSJ. When it comes to ecu, I have not decidet yet. There are a intersting project going on here: http://www.verboom.n...u/obdtuner.html It looks very prommising, but has no release-date yet.

you can get a 10:1 piston for the LSJ and then skim the head down by ~1mm to get up to 11:1

Anyone know if the crank trigger patter 60-2 for the Z20NET, as it's essntially the same engine as the b207, just a bit easier/cheaper to get hold of?

Edited by Winstar, 02 July 2010 - 11:10 AM.