25 replies to this topic

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

I know I touched on this in the other thread, but I'm looking to rip this out. Can it be done, if so how...?

[FLD]

I know I touched on this in the other thread, but I'm looking to rip this out.

Can it be done, if so how...?

If you look at the MC on the servo there are two line outs. One front, one rear. These need plumbing with a tee-piece. The biggest worry is getting the feed for the speedo. What I'm not sure of, and have been unable to find, is if the output from the abs module for the speedo is the same output as is recieved from the wheel hub. If you can just connect the hub signal wire to the stack to make it work then it'll be easy.

If its this easy, you could run it from the front wheel hub and bin off the sensors and wiring from the rest. More weight gone!

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Why do I need this signal to go back to the Speedo...? Is it for the actual speed reference...? What we'd need to find out then is if the ABS module translates the sensor signal for the speedo, or just passes it straight through.

[slindborg]

You can chicken out of a full replumb (for testing) to get from something like a MK4 astra/Corsa D with no ABS is the distribution block that fits in place of the ABS. Lets the fluid flow to the right ends etc. As for sensors, the rear drivers side sensor is the one for the engine (It might have speed/load maps or atelast knwo if you are staionarey or moving) I'll have a trawl through the TIS wiring diagram to work out if the sensor feeds the ABS unit then to the ECU or if it goes to both in parallel etc. RIGHT Had a good look in the TIS. You need to keep the sensors (Although you can bin off the front ones as they do feck all for the engien) but you need to keep the ABS controller, but disconnect the feed from the ABS unit to the dash light, keep the speed signal wireand can off the rest. Seems quite a viable option if you move the ABS unit to the engine bay and place it as low as possible (possibly eve open up the module and make its packaging smaller)

Edited by slindborg, 05 July 2010 - 08:12 AM.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

You can chicken out of a full replumb (for testing) to get from something like a MK4 astra/Corsa D with no ABS is the distribution block that fits in place of the ABS. Lets the fluid flow to the right ends etc.


As for sensors, the rear drivers side sensor is the one for the engine (It might have speed/load maps or atelast knwo if you are staionarey or moving)

I'll have a trawl through the TIS wiring diagram to work out if the sensor feeds the ABS unit then to the ECU or if it goes to both in parallel etc.




RIGHT
Had a good look in the TIS.
You need to keep the sensors (Although you can bin off the front ones as they do feck all for the engien)
but you need to keep the ABS controller, but disconnect the feed from the ABS unit to the dash light, keep the speed signal wireand can off the rest.

Seems quite a viable option if you move the ABS unit to the engine bay and place it as low as possible (possibly eve open up the module and make its packaging smaller)

Top work Stu.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Right just trauled back to find this. I'm bumping it back up so I can find it whenI get home. I'm going to look further into this.

[FLD]

Good work! Would be nice to have a bias bar. I dont suppose if anyone knows if the sensor signal is changed by the abs module for the speedo? Binning off the abs module would be nice.

[Arno]

Good work! Would be nice to have a bias bar. I dont suppose if anyone knows if the sensor signal is changed by the abs module for the speedo? Binning off the abs module would be nice.

Yes it is.

Wheel hub speed signal is a rather weedy inductive signal. The signal to the speedo is a strong square wave signal.

You'd at least need some form of level converter. May need some frequency adjustment (division or multiplication) too if the pulses per revolution are not the same between the 'raw' hub output and what the dash expects.

Not rocket-science, but needs some electronic gadgetry.

Bye, Arno.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

OK so I am assuming 3 and 2 will seperate.....?

Will I be able to do away with item 2 (with a little plumbing)?

Then re-locate item 3? Bin off some sensors...

What then, is there some sort of actuator at the brake that forces the pedal back when the ABS kicks in...?

[slindborg]

It pulses the fluid back to the Master Cylinder so you feel it. Dom on MIGWEB does ABS sensor to speedo Square wave convertors for cheapness if you want to can off the ABS module completely. I'll have a look at the diagrams tomorrow to see how the ABS hooks upto the ECU for that wiring. I now think you can completely remove the ABS stuff inc the ecu.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

It pulses the fluid back to the Master Cylinder so you feel it.


Dom on MIGWEB does ABS sensor to speedo Square wave convertors for cheapness if you want to can off the ABS module completely.

I'll have a look at the diagrams tomorrow to see how the ABS hooks upto the ECU for that wiring.

I now think you can completely remove the ABS stuff inc the ecu.

If we can splice in a signal converter like you said, I cannot see why not I don't need my speedo anyway on track! As long as I have revs I'm happy

Who/what is MIGWEB? (googling as we speak )

[siztenboots]

individual wheel speed sensors would be good to datalog, easy if you have a RT DL1 won't you need your car to be MOT legal for the race series, just think it would be easier to fit the VXR ABS unit for 4 channel track use. "running in a road legal condition and capable of passing the general safety standards of an MOT test." , depends how you interpret that.

Edited by siztenboots, 20 October 2010 - 07:45 AM.

[slindborg]

technically you need a speedo for the mot.... and if the ecu and speedo use the same signal you are sorted. migweb is a forum, simple right, had a look. piece of p*ss to sack off the ABS completely. You need the sensor to pulse convertor, then wire that to the Yellow/Grey wire at pin 3 of the ABS connector. This will feed the speedo and the ecu... WIN. As for the ABS light on the dash, you can just move the Black/Yellow wire to 12V or possibly leave if free to stop it from coming on at all, or find another light that goes out at the same time as the ABS one and piggy back off that

Edited by slindborg, 20 October 2010 - 08:14 AM.

[siztenboots]

so this is being done for weight saving against the obvious benefit of ABS. at the front , and particularly the drivers side, probably the last place I'd be focussing on weight reduction. I think you may struggle with getting your corner weight diagonals LF+RR to balance with your ballast. When I test fitted the chargecooler tank and pump, it was the driverside front bay that I wanted to put the weight and move weight forwards and lower down. Thus the RF+LR diagonal wouldn't change much as its near perfect at the moment.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

technically you need a speedo for the mot.... and if the ecu and speedo use the same signal you are sorted.

migweb is a forum, simple


right, had a look.

piece of p*ss to sack off the ABS completely.
You need the sensor to pulse convertor, then wire that to the Yellow/Grey wire at pin 3 of the ABS connector. This will feed the speedo and the ecu... WIN.

As for the ABS light on the dash, you can just move the Black/Yellow wire to 12V or possibly leave if free to stop it from coming on at all, or find another light that goes out at the same time as the ABS one and piggy back off that

Yeah if I get a resistor to fake the pre-tensioner signal then I can use OPCOM to disable my airbag then piggy back the ABS light off of the Airbag light. That way they both light up when I start up the engine and go out. Happy days.

Stu could you ask this guy for a price/email address so I can contact him for bits

OK so we have the electrical solution..... What about the plumbing. Are you saying a Corsa D distribution block would fit? If these are heavy would there be any value in just soldering in some T peices into the pipework or does the distribution block differentiate the flow to different channels...?

[slindborg]

If going through the hassle of bropping the ABS completely, I'd be inclined to totally replumb the system with the two outlets from the MC going to the front and back on individual circuits (a mild risk but lots of MS brakes are run this way), a bias valve on the rear and job jobbed. Maybe ask Chris how he runs his brakes?

[N17VES]

individual wheel speed sensors would be good to datalog, easy if you have a RT DL1

won't you need your car to be MOT legal for the race series, just think it would be easier to fit the VXR ABS unit for 4 channel track use.

"running in a road legal condition and capable of passing the general safety standards of an MOT test." , depends how you interpret that.

I'm with sizetenboot - I'd ft the VXR/Exige module.

With my VX I was so much quicker without the ABS, but the exige system is a lot better - I can guarantee you will be so much quicker on a wet track with ABS!! I would still run a cutoff switch though as some tracks are better suited without.

[FLD]

Random idea... why not bin off the servo as well and run a proper bias bar? The effort required for braking is just on the cylinder size. Used to run one on my mk2 escort. Easy enough to make up.

[Exmantaa]

Like the Nitron car has...
(http://nitronracing.wordpress.com/)

[FLD]

Like the Nitron car has...
(http://nitronracing.wordpress.com/)

Ah yes, exactly like that.