380 replies to this topic

[T7Design]

Hi Guys, I am Adam and I run T7Design, I have been contacted by a few members from this forum who have brought to my attention the issues you are having with the VX220's heater system. I have started a new thread here and was wondering if you guys could post info, diagrams, pictures etc of the complete system in the VX220, ie the layout of the water hose, the positioning of the fan, matrix, heater ducting, outlet points within the interior and the electronic control systems used to govern the whole assembly. I have only found a few pictures from briefly searching google and so I can't really say at this point in time whether a drop in solution could be fabricated. Kind Regards, Adam

[Bargi]

TIS perhaps can help out?
Click Here

Edited by Bargi, 30 December 2010 - 04:11 PM.

[slindborg]

Please take note that if you over cool the water in the heater matrix you cause cycling of the thermostat at the engine due to the stupid layout of the pipe work in the back (thats true on the N/A anyway). I made a new housing for the matrix and used an inline blower which was all badly piped and it was still too hot and caused problems with engine temps so less efficient design was concocted but never made to completion The OEM matrix is 100mm wide, 45mm thick and approx 330mm long (excluding the pipes you connect to).

[FLD]

I have a spare if youre anywhere near bollington?

[T7Design]

Hey, thanks for the offer but HoneyMunster is sending down his old unit for me to take a look at. Is there much room under the dash of one of these cars? One way to increase efficiency is to move the unit as close to the outlet points as possible, however you are now introducing hot water into the cabin and a noisey fan.. Does the original setup use a lot of ducting to get the air from the heater to the cabin?

[slindborg]

I'd suggest to completely ignore the OEM unit as its a complete piece of sh**. there isnt a lot of space in the dash, and more to the point routing the pipes in would be a twat of a job Ideally you want to have the outlet vertical to simply do a 90deg bend into the cabin feed unlike the OEM item that is pointing at the drivers side wheel There is a little more space if you keep to less than 100mm tall as you can put it that little further back/deeper as there is the step under the bulkhead where the heater unit sits (pics might be better to explain that) tbh seeing how your current setup fits and then just tweak it might be the best option, but then plan the plumbing with a valve to control the heat

[Steve B]

A better replacement in the same location would interest me, wouldn't want it relocated. I'm sure the original can be easily improved on, as said the outlet pointing towards where the ducting goes would be a start

[Paulus H]

If the your kit is sensible money, it is going to be a no brainer for owners to buy. Now you have a user name and password for this site you will able to see how many people having been trying to attempt to improve the heater!! Good luck, Paul

[moneyhunster]

Hi Adam, my old heater will be on its way first thing tomorrow, sorry for the packaging!! I told you guys if we all club together we could fix this on going problem, perhaps now we will! As per your e-mail, flow is poor and the heat is poor too. Slindborg do you think your temperature problem might of been down to the bypass thing you made for yours? the original heater always cools the water in the matrix, just diverts the warm air into the cabin if needed?? This will have to be the best mod if we pull it off.

[smiley]

I fooked mine a few weeks ago. Looking forward to be able to buy a swappable working one @Adam; 7207 speedsters/vx's sold, and most have bad heaters. Keep in mind that speedsters (5000) and vx's (2000) have mirrored heater systems. Speedsters have them on the left, and vx's on the right side in the bay.

Edited by smiley, 30 December 2010 - 11:28 PM.

[moneyhunster]

And after he's fixed ours perhaps the elise lads!

[smiley]

Here's a dutch guy that converted an rhd heater to an lhd (poor on pictures, and text, but maybe it helps) http://www.speedster...opic.php?t=4451

[T7Design]

There is certainly an incentive to come up with a working replacement! Perhaps then I could afford my own VX220 Is there anybody in Exeter on here that owns a VX220 as it would be good to see what the original system is like.

[GiGo]

Will be interested in one, depending on price I was thinking about this the other day, why not just add a heated element in each of the vents, then have a switch to turn the heated element on and off? Just a thought.

[slindborg]

Hi Adam, my old heater will be on its way first thing tomorrow, sorry for the packaging!!

I told you guys if we all club together we could fix this on going problem, perhaps now we will!

As per your e-mail, flow is poor and the heat is poor too.

Slindborg do you think your temperature problem might of been down to the bypass thing you made for yours? the original heater always cools the water in the matrix, just diverts the warm air into the cabin if needed??

This will have to be the best mod if we pull it off.

ITs NOTHING to do with the bypass.... As I've had it bypassed for nearly 2 years now and had never had issues.
The problem is if you take too much heat out of the matrix the return water is a LOT cooler than the coolant in the engine and due to the lotcation of the return on the N/A it causes the thermostat to shut driving up the engine temps. I was seeing a 10deg rise then fall over a fairly stable time base when using MK1 of my heater design. Hence the less efficient MK2 which is 50% made and less than likely to ever be tested

[T7Design]

@slindborg: I am a bit confused at this, I thought most heater systems returned at the pump on the suction side generally with the high pressure side (somewhere on the engine block) feeding the heater system.. how does the system work on the VX? I am thinking there could also be water flow and heat loss issues due to the length of hose running from front to back, does anybody know how big this hose is, whether it is lagged and is it exposed underneath the car? I tested a single fan heater at a 8Ltr/min flow rate at 70c water temp (my temp sensor only measured up to 70c), the tube run between the heat source and the heater was minimum, the water temp difference between the inlet and outlet side was only 4 - 5c, if the flow is significantly less and the hose run is long then there will be a far greater temp difference. At these water temps and flow rates the heater warmed the air from a 19c ambient to 39.7c. When the water was boiling the air temp out made it quite uncomfortable to keep your hand in front of one of the outlets. @gigo: Elements rely on how big your alternator is, so if you run a 750w-1000w alternator and you turn on everything that draws current in your car, you are probably left with a few hundred watts which will hardly be noticeable. You are also putting extra load on the engine (albeit small) when the heat in the water is a by product of the combustion process. There is approximately the same amount of energy lost to the cooling system as the engine actually gives at the crank, so there is definitely a lot of potential for heating if you want it! It just seems in this case that some manufacturers are better at making use of it than others!

[slindborg]

There is an N/A plumbing diagram on the markverboom website. All I know is the dash temp moved around by 10deg when running my lashup heater which basically fed air directly over the matrix and straight into the cabin. When this was bypassed it ran fine again with only a few degrees of change. The pipes arent lagged but with the pipes linked at the front there is no change in engine temps compared to running them through the matrix with no air flowing over it. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong but those were my findings with a better heater setup http://www.vx220.org..._1#entry1012642 lashup setup but feck me it was hot in there!

[moneyhunster]

Depending on the design of the heater could we not change the thermostat for a slightly different temp one to compensate it?

[Bargi]

Depending on the design of the heater could we not change the thermostat for a slightly different temp one to compensate it?

I'm guessing you'd possibly bring on other problems when you're not using the heater.

I think this is possibly too much being looked at, Slinborg mentioned what happened with his modified setup, with a bigger matrix (I think) he also had an fan that possibly pushed a lot more air.
Going by others that have a good heater there's more than heat entering the cabin, so as long as the matrix in the after market box isn't too much bigger it shouldn't be a problem I'd guess.

The main issue with the OEM heater is it's they're rubbish in construction and will become like hens teeth as time goes on, hopefully this after market one comes through

Edited by Bargi, 31 December 2010 - 12:57 PM.

[slindborg]

Depending on the design of the heater could we not change the thermostat for a slightly different temp one to compensate it?

I'm guessing you'd possibly bring on other problems when you're not using the heater.

I think this is possibly too much being looked at, Slinborg mentioned what happened with his modified setup, with a bigger matrix (I think) he also had an fan that possibly pushed a lot more air.
Going by others that have a good heater there's more than heat entering the cabin, so as long as the matrix in the after market box isn't too much bigger it shouldn't be a problem I'd guess.

The main issue with the OEM heater is it's they're rubbish in construction and will become like hens teeth as time goes on, hopefully this after market one comes through

used the OEM matrix and the merlin fan....
I'd say the heater dumps more than enough heat out, just it needs to be routed and fanned properly