23 replies to this topic

[dw1]

I've done a search and the information I've found so far is scattered on the upgrade options available. I'd like to know what the options and the implications of them i.e. cost, wear rates, ABS issues etc

[Ouchie]

Do you just mean pads and disc options or full blown 4/6 pot conversions?


Starter for 10, as I am living (just about) with these at the moment:
EBC Greenstuff pads with standard discs
Cost : fair (I think, didn't buy them. Been on car for years)
Wear rate : they don't wear but the discs sure do.
Performance - hot : fair
Performance - cold : what brakes!!!

[jasvxt]

Bin the green sh*te before they kill you Ouchie

[Winstar]

Bin the green sh*te before they kill you Ouchie

seconded, they are just dangerous.

The price Autovaux is doing Mintex 1144 for now they're not even that cheap.

[snoopstah]

Performance - cold : what brakes!!!

Seriously, if you have ABS problems, just fit Green Stuff - you'll no longer be in any danger of locking the wheels

[Code Monkey]

running vxl grooved discs here with mintex 1144's most passengers find the brakes to be very impressive. not sure what the wear is like onthe discs but apart from fair amount of brake dust no complaints.

[Ouchie]

I will try to get a picture of my discs purely for comedy value. Damn thing feels like a oil tanker but is predictable and only takes a few dabs to stop the puckering I'm interested in what everybody else recommends. Generally 1144 pads but with what discs? Grooved, drilled, coated in snake oil, branded, made of wax...what? I guess there should also be a category of "Suitable for track use" not that is matters for me it might for others.

[urbanmac]

what about Pagids and standard £30 discs? I don't get grooved, drilled discs, surely that mean less surface area for the pads to touch. I know grooves and holes will help cooling but if you are not on a track do they actually help?

[bohemoth]

not had my vx long and mechanic told me a couple of days ago that my rear pads werent worth sh*t and i should change them went round an unknown bend the same day and their was a junction naturally pressed the brakes thought i hit the clutch nout happened panicked put my foot through the floor of my car just stopped in time. basically what im saying is dont use crap pads

[Winstar]

Pads

This is the best post I've seen about what pads there are available

Hi

I've just posted on "bedding in procedure" on different brake pads... A slightly different version here to include 1155's and mixing pads front and rear..


We tend to ask customers to rate themselves from 0-10 where 0 is: "I only use my car to go to the supermarket" to 10: "I only use my car on the track"

We tend to recommend (remembering that one person's "4" is another person's "7"):

0 - 3 - use the OE Pad, and benefit from the thousands of hours of development the manufacturer has put into getting it right

1 - 3 EBC Greenstuff (as a cheap replacement for the OE pad - the benefits being low dust)

2 - 4 Mintex 1144 (an improvement over EBC, OK for road/ track days but do suffer from high-temperature fall off of performance). My personal prefernce is that 1155 are too hard for a VX as these are designed for much heavier cars.

3 - 5 Pagid RS42 (known as ‘Pagid Blue’), RS4-2 gives a good low temperature response. It is very stable, with superior modulation and feel. RS4-2 has a medium co-efficient of friction with good pad and disc life. Suitable for many applications especially where feel and control is needed. A good road and track pad, which loses little of the road low temp

5 - 10 Pagid RS14 (known as "Black") RS14 is a ceramic pad (that's why they are twice the price of the Mintex pad) with excellent fade resistance and good at all temperatures you are likely to generate in a VX. A high friction, high temperature material with good pad life at this level of friction. They do squeal if not beded in properly (See below), and tend to be "knocky" on EBC turbogrooved discs or the equivalent - they work best on a plain or lightly grooved disc.

We have tried RS15 but remain unconvinced that they are better than RS14. RS14 is the recommended "Sport and Performance" pad from Lotus. RS15 have good initial bite but have less feel than RS14.

We would not recommend mixing pad compounds front and rear. Lotus/ Vauxhal spent a lot of R&D budget in getting the balnce right - mixing compounds cannot improve this.

We will try to price-match any UK supplier. If you would like us to fit, we are the only company in the country that can supply, fit and safely bed-in Pagid pads before you leave our premises!

I've just seen on another thread that Vauxhall charge fortunes to change pads! We'll fit a car set for £39.50 plus VAT.


www.plansmotorsport.com

However while Plans doesn't recommend mixing componds some of the members have found the following:(from when I asked about it on Type116)

I have the 14/15 setup on my NA, have done since I bought it 3 years ago. I have tried it with 14's all round and the front used to dive heavily under hard braking, which made the rears light and do bugger all. Switched to the 15's and it made the car squat on all 4's when under heavy braking, so despite the technical school of thought being that it *shouldn't* work, in reality it does.

Performance Braking, 01600 713117, ask for John and tell him Mike & Andy sent you(y)

Disks

The general concensus is that you should just use the std cheap disks with a good set of pads. However you can fit disks with grooves and/or drilled, however the drilled disks should really have cast in holes rather than machined and should be checked regually. They are easy to get hold of as they are the same as fitted to the Vectra and other GM models.

The Factory upgrade drilled disks are different to all the other as they have a far larger ventilation gap and are lighter than std, but they're very expensive. clicky

One Issue that has been seen is that on track std disks can overheat and go blue, prob due to the small cooling channel, the cheapest solution to this is to remove foglights and fit cooling ducts.

A few companies, including plans, do disks with seperate ali bells in the center that have larger cooling channels and are lighter.

Due to the hub pattern being a std GM one you can get bigger, 308mm, disk from the SAAB aero and fit a spacer below the caliper, SAAB Aero disk thread a dis advantage of these are they are quite heavy

Upgrades

There is the TMS 4 pot that is well documented

As for the ultimate brakes I'll leave that to cyberman.

Cyberman's ultimate brake thread

How's that, any thing I've missed?

[cheeky_chops]

Cyberman's ultimate brake thread

I never bore of reading that thread! If my new business venture picks up!

[dw1]

Winstar, ther's a reason why you've got star in your name. Nice one Some food for thought. I could still with an idea of costs and trade offs in terms of how often you will have to replace discs and pads assuming you drive about 10k miles/year and do some track days.

[Ouchie]

Do you just mean pads and disc options or full blown 4/6 pot conversions?


Starter for 10, as I am living (just about) with these at the moment:
EBC Greenstuff pads with standard discs
Cost : fair (I think, didn't buy them. Been on car for years)
Wear rate : they don't wear but the discs sure do.
Performance - hot : fair
Performance - cold : what brakes!!!

I would like to revise my original opinion since getting 1144s fitted.

Greenstuff = butter
1144 = perfect starting point but can be iffy in very wet and cold conditions (still better than butter though)

The ABS kicks in far far less with 1144s (infact never so far)

Edited by Ouchie, 13 January 2008 - 08:03 PM.

[VIX]

1144 = perfect starting point but can be iffy in very wet and cold conditions (still better than butter though)

In what way are they "iffy"?

[rsg]

What about fluild? Dot 4 or 5.1?

[Ouchie]

With 5.1 fluid, iffy as in they don't have that initial bite you get when dry. They still grab the disks and stop the car well enough but there was a split second delay which made me worry. I was going from 70-0 off a motorway and it was raining heavily. Hadn't needed to use the brakes for about 30 minutes either. To be expected I suppose.

Edited by Ouchie, 14 January 2008 - 09:43 AM.

[Mangham54]

I have found on a couple of occasions in the wet particularly that the standard discs and 1144s a bit woeful, though I hadn't had the fluid changed at that point despite asking Vauxhall to do it as part of its service and MOT and have changed the fluid since - the difference in colour was rather quite striking, but had only managed to drive it in the dry for a couple of hundred - heavy braking free miles before the Arctic conditions arrived. I know this goes against everything else that has been said. Would grooved or dimpled discs help with initial bite on a wet disc by allowing the pad to make quicker contact with disc (like treaded tyre v slick tyre), but then loose advantage soon after with the difference in surface area in contact? As a matter of interest the Carbon Lorraine pads what are they like when just using on the road rather on the track...? Do they have cold bite issues or are they really just another step up?

[cnrandall]

Feel free to give me a buzz at Hofmann's 01491412633. We need to stop 870kg of Europa running 420bhp on slick tyres so we have learnt more than a little about the best brake solutions. Also we are UK distributors for Carbon Lorraine pads...

[slindborg]

Feel free to give me a buzz at Hofmann's 01491412633. We need to stop 870kg of Europa running 420bhp on slick tyres so we have learnt more than a little about the best brake solutions. Also we are UK distributors for Carbon Lorraine pads...

99% sure you'd have learnt the same about the brakes if it was only 10bhp... or even 5000000bhp.

imho of course

[cnrandall]

Feel free to give me a buzz at Hofmann's 01491412633. We need to stop 870kg of Europa running 420bhp on slick tyres so we have learnt more than a little about the best brake solutions. Also we are UK distributors for Carbon Lorraine pads...

99% sure you'd have learnt the same about the brakes if it was only 10bhp... or even 5000000bhp.

imho of course

Errr... no... the terminal speed, weight and grip available from the big slick tyres of the Europa mean it needs to shed a sh** load more energy at the end of the straight than, say, a 200bhp, 750kg Elise. You find the limits of the brakes somewhat faster and learn quickly how to make them better.