15 replies to this topic

[efrenlotus]

Hi, I speak of from Spain I begin this issue with the great dilemma about any speedster user when installing an LSD in their car. It has been debated for years, but nobody even gives a conclusion, this evening I read this post: http://www.vx220.org...pic=18393&st=40 and I was struck by a question -The first and the harder it is, which of the locking differentials that can be installed in the transmission F23 (Torsen) is the percentage of blockade carries more? ATB FWD? ATB FWD by Plans motorsport? Gripper? There are more options? -The second is, Quaife differential sells the same reference to Astras and VX220, so it is the same for both models, what is the difference between this differential and the differential tuned by plans motorsport? According to what I read in the thread above, the Plans was modified to avoid understeer in corners, but this I do not care, because to avoid understeer can be played with the geometry and suspension, which interests me is to get the maximum degree of differential lock without installing a disk that requires maintenance. I really do not care to lose half a second in the fastest lap of a circuit, what interests me is that when your ass starts to slide the car and I want to forward (and eye, these are very delicate) is the most progressive and intuitive as possible, and allow more control to the exit of the corners ... That said what is the difference that better suits my premises? ( issue was never debated )

Edited by efrenlotus, 01 November 2011 - 01:57 AM.

[Tail slide]

Hi, I speak of from Spain

I begin this issue with the great dilemma about any speedster user when installing an LSD in their car.

It has been debated for years, but nobody even gives a conclusion, this evening I read this post: http://www.vx220.org...pic=18393&st=40 and I was struck by a question

-The first and the harder it is, which of the locking differentials that can be installed in the transmission F23 (Torsen) is the percentage of blockade carries more?

ATB FWD?
ATB FWD by Plans motorsport?
Gripper?
There are more options?

-The second is, Quaife differential sells the same reference to Astras and VX220, so it is the same for both models, what is the difference between this differential and the differential tuned by plans motorsport?

According to what I read in the thread above, the Plans was modified to avoid understeer in corners, but this I do not care, because to avoid understeer can be played with the geometry and suspension, which interests me is to get the maximum degree of differential lock without installing a disk that requires maintenance.

I really do not care to lose half a second in the fastest lap of a circuit, what interests me is that when your ass starts to slide the car and I want to forward (and eye, these are very delicate) is the most progressive and intuitive as possible, and allow more control to the exit of the corners ...

That said what is the difference that better suits my premises?

( issue was never debated )

Hi,

The ATB lsd that Quaife sells now has the reduced ramp angles that Plans suggested, which makes it lock more progressively.

I fitted this last year, and it is very effective in all conditions including slippery wet tarmac (but NOT snow, where you need a cone or plate-type diff like a gripper - it would not move on a flat icy surface, but was on summer tyres - this is not a problem in Spain I would think!)

It gives extra drive out of tight slippery corners like roundabouts or hairpins on track, but in a progressive way that you can finely control with your accelerator, and does not increase understeer or lift-off oversteer like the other types of diff do.

[efrenlotus]

Hi,

The ATB lsd that Quaife sells now has the reduced ramp angles that Plans suggested, which makes it lock more progressively.

This is what I do not understand, because it sells the Quaife differential for both the Astra and for the vx2220:

http://www.quaife.co...oducts/qdf17b-3
http://www.quaife.co...oducts/qdf17b-2

In both cases the reference of LSD is the same ( QDF17B ), there is a specific for different applications...

I suggested that the question of whether the differential have been updated and is better also in the FWD application or is the same differential that sold years ago for FWD application

I fitted this last year, and it is very effective in all conditions including slippery wet tarmac (but NOT snow, where you need a cone or plate-type diff like a gripper - it would not move on a flat icy surface, but was on summer tyres - this is not a problem in Spain I would think!)

It gives extra drive out of tight slippery corners like roundabouts or hairpins on track, but in a progressive way that you can finely control with your accelerator, and does not increase understeer or lift-off oversteer like the other types of diff do.

I see, you are very happy with the results of the modified atb differential (in theory), but ...¿ has tested the car with the ( theoretical ) first version of the differential or a gripper? this is for me the most important, know the differences between the two models to choose the one that best suits what I want

In Spain we also have snow , but in my case I do not usually get the car in these circumstances (and least semislicks), but I recognize that some day if I've got

[Nev]

I have one in my car, you can read my comments on it in my blog: https://sites.google...-considerations

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Sticky has one too and I drove it at Le Mans this year. I was impressesd at how early you can get the power on out of the corner but it didn't like riding the kerbs so much.

[slindborg]

iirc Mr X has got Gripper to make an F23 plate diff imho plate > atb

[Tail slide]

I agree with Nev's thorough write up on what it feels like. I've had plate diffs in other cars that were front-engined rear wheel drive, and while they would push the tail out around hairpins with less throttle than the ATB, they would also lock up off the throttle going into a corner making the rear likely to step out, which is ok if more weight is towards the front of the car. As the VX already steps out at the rear when you come off the throttle, I suspect that it would do it much more strongly and likely spin (like a kart will). If so, it would be very risky on the road, and wouldn't even gain you any time on the track compared to the ATB, unless you were on a loose surface like Autocross of course. I talked to the guys from Gripper at the Autosport Show last year, and they were trying to convince me that the fastest way around a track was with both rear wheels spinning up..... Yes the part number is the same, but if you clearly order it for a VX220 you will get the correct ramp angles.

Edited by Tail slide, 02 November 2011 - 07:08 PM.

[slindborg]

I guess it depends how aggressive the clutch/ramps are on the plate... I reckon a VX wouldnt need that much assistance from a diff to prevent inside light up, hence the ATB being different (lighter) from queef, and as such the plate type should be fairly gentle too. The DBS has a very aggressive plate setup where even a light touch of the throttle will push the front out (unless its wet ), not fun.... gentle settings on it are far far move fun.

[Sticky]

Sticky has one too and I drove it at Le Mans this year.

I was impressesd at how early you can get the power on out of the corner but it didn't like riding the kerbs so much.

just needs a different driving style that comes with practice/getting to know the different dynamics. 2 laps on a busy track didn't give you that opportunity Mike

[efrenlotus]

Nev, in his blog is very good info, thank you very much

I see everyone is delighted with the atb differential current, very good thing.

This means that both sells Quaife differential with the same reference but different? it is possible.

Now imagine that the differential amount which sells Quaife atb specific for astra what differences between this and the specific differential for vx220 and differential for Plans motorsport? (Apart from having less understeer) when attacking the curves will be more progressive or less? that's what interests me about all this, and this alone could answer me someone who has tested the differential 2 configurations in the same car ... difficult thing.

iirc Mr X has got Gripper to make an F23 plate diff

imho plate > atb

Forgive but do not understand, could be explained better?

Edited by efrenlotus, 02 November 2011 - 09:18 PM.

[VX-GT]

Slindy is referring to me http://www.vx220.org...__fromsearch__1 I have funded the tooling for F23 gripper plate LSD this item is truly tune-able you can define preload, ramp acceleration & ramp decceleration another advantage you can carry you own spares for setting up for different applications (technical circuit, power circuit, sprinting etc)

Edited by atom x, 02 November 2011 - 09:43 PM.

[efrenlotus]

Slindy is referring to me

http://www.vx220.org...__fromsearch__1

I have funded the tooling for F23 gripper plate LSD

this item is truly tune-able
you can define preload, ramp acceleration & ramp decceleration

another advantage you can carry you own spares for setting up for different applications (technical circuit, power circuit, sprinting etc)

Very interesting...

Do we maintenance this type of differential? This is the most important of all when we have a differential integrated into the gearbox that is not easy to access ...

perhaps with a "special oil" is not necessary to open the case in many miles, I'm interested to know more about this topic.

It would be interesting to see the results of this type of differential is also interesting that people experience with them, so those of us then we have the best morons for different types of behavior

Edited by efrenlotus, 02 November 2011 - 11:44 PM.

[bunsenburner]

I am considering an LSD. Does anyone know if the VX LSDs mentioned above are compatible with a 4.17 final drive gearbox?

[VX-GT]

I am considering an LSD. Does anyone know if the VX LSDs mentioned above are compatible with a 4.17 final drive gearbox?

gripper items ARE compatible with all available differential ratios

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Sticky has one too and I drove it at Le Mans this year.

I was impressesd at how early you can get the power on out of the corner but it didn't like riding the kerbs so much.

just needs a different driving style that comes with practice/getting to know the different dynamics. 2 laps on a busy track didn't give you that opportunity Mike

I appreciate that but you were in the car and I had a moment. Give me the car on my own...

[Sticky]

Sticky has one too and I drove it at Le Mans this year.

I was impressesd at how early you can get the power on out of the corner but it didn't like riding the kerbs so much.

just needs a different driving style that comes with practice/getting to know the different dynamics. 2 laps on a busy track didn't give you that opportunity Mike

I appreciate that but you were in the car and I had a moment. Give me the car on my own...

It would be my pleasure