35 replies to this topic

[JG]

Actually Mclaren do exactly what the antiroll bars do but they do it with clever dampers. They stiffen on roll to have the same effect without some of the disadvantages of anti-roll bars.

[TheRealVXed]

I know it has the same effect.... just without affecting the ride comfort in the same way that ARBs do.

[JG]

Arbs dont affect the ride comfort, thats the whole point

[SteveA]

Think Chris was referring to proper rear arb's not the bendy wendy stretch armstrong units you guys fit to your duck feathered cloud gliders

£10 says my front ARB is stiffer than yours

In reply to the argument going on above, this is lifted from the Eliseparts web site.

"There are no downsides to this modification; it does not effect the ride comfort, it simply alleviates body roll thus enhancing your vehicle's cornering abilities."

Edited by SteveA, 06 January 2012 - 09:50 AM.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

£10 says my nipples are stiffer than yours

You win Stretch!!

[Derek J]

Of course an ARB will have an effect on ride comfort. You are adding an un-damped spring into your suspension. Any undulation that effects a wheel on one side will add load into the ARB and that will be reacted upon by the un-damped spring. One of the reasons for the McLaren and Range Rover alternatives into to remove that effect. Of course they are also trying to improve traction (with the McLaren) and wheel articulation (with the RR) through these solutions. I have driven mid-engined race cars with both a rear ARB and without, neither is better than the other but simply trying to achieve the same effect with a different balance and overall spring rate setup. The one big advantage with an ARB on both the front and rear of a race car is you have another component of adjustment with which to set the balance. If you look at modern F1 cars, they have very little rear spring setup but achieve most of the rear control with the ARB/Damper configuration. This gives lateral control and a soft rear for good traction.

[SteveA]

I think you are forgetting that our ARB's have flexible drop link connections which reduce undulation effects. I am currently running without a front roll bar and under normal driving conditions the driving comfort is identical IMO (and I have rose jointed drop links)

Edited by SteveA, 06 January 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[Aerodynamic]

Arbs dont affect the ride comfort, thats the whole point

True just adding a ARB will not make your car less comfortable (maybe a little because adding unsprung wight (probably not even noticeble)
but for a race car
you could instead put harder spring on the rear end, good when you have a big rear wing and
don´t want to ride on the bump stops. In this case I mean its a comfort thing.

Either you have soft springs and ARB (comfort configuration)
Or have harder springs. (Raceconfig good maybe with a rear wing?!)

BR, Per

,Per

[chazpowerslide]

Of course an ARB will have an effect on ride comfort.
You are adding an un-damped spring into your suspension

Er, the ARB is not an un-damped spring.
Typically they are attached to the tub/chassis and act through the upper/ lower wishbones which in turn act through the dampers.
The ARB is therefore being damped via the dampers
Therefore it is NOT an undamped spring and only partially adds to the unsprung weight of the vehicle.

Also an ARB will not effect ride quality in the situation whereby both wheels it's acting upon are acting in bump/droop simultaniously (the vast majority of the time) as the bar is mearly pivoting on it's chassis/tub mounts and not being twisted, it is only effecting suspension stiffness and weight transfer when one wheel is in bump and the other is in droop and the bar is being consistently twisted, IE the car is in roll mode.
Even in a situation where say the N/S wheel is traversing bumbs over a rough surface and the O/S wheel is traversing a smoother surface ride quality will not be adversly effectet as the bar is not being consistently loaded (twisted) in one direction as it would be in roll mode, in this case the ARB could be said to assisting the road spring in keeping the the tyre in contact with the road.
The purpose of the bar is to prevent roll by means of weight transfer.
Chaz.

Edited by chazpowerslide, 06 January 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[butch111]

chazpowerslide: "The ARB is therefore being damped via the dampers"

You forgot, that the ARB and the springs only work together when you drive throug a plain corner.
While breaking, accelerating etc the ARB have no effect.
So youve bought a new problem for setting up the damper on varius springrates.

sorry 4 my english

[VIX]

Top thread revival - and welcome.

[Scuffers]

LOL! some right tosh posted in this thread! just for giggles, this is a std ARB, now, try telling me this has any significant effect on anything: now consider just what you would need at the rear to actually have *any* effect.....

[butch111]

The VX220 Arb must have a springrate of something like 10-12 N/mm (if I remember)...........If the car is only lifted on one side, the man in the Video must be VERY Strong!

[JG]

LOL!

some right tosh posted in this thread!

just for giggles, this is a std ARB, now, try telling me this has any significant effect on anything:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfZ7wEFRBiQ

now consider just what you would need at the rear to actually have *any* effect.....

We can't see the other side of the car. For all we know it could also be in the air without a shock on.

Great video, really great. Proves your point entirely. Well done.

[Scuffers]

The VX220 Arb must have a springrate of something like 10-12 N/mm (if I remember)...........If the car is only lifted on one side, the man in the Video must be VERY Strong!

in that vid, the other side of the car is on the floor, and no, I am not He-Man.

Never bothered accurately measuring the std ARB, it's way to soft to bother with.

We can't see the other side of the car. For all we know it could also be in the air without a shock on.

Great video, really great. Proves your point entirely. Well done.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm? (/checks out website - oh dear....)

[Paulus H]

I would suggest that when the phrase, "undamped spring" and anti roll bar are used together is that it would be assumed that the damper is matched to the spring rate of the coil springs so that unwanted spring oscillation is stopped by the damper. Any more damping effect than the minimum required to stop this oscillation will reduce cornering power. Add into the mix a stiff anti roll bar and there are two choices, increase damping so that the coil spring is over damped (reducing cornering power) or leave the damping suited to the coil spring only and leave any additional spring oscillations UNDAMPED. Hence why anti roll bars are known as undamped springs. Kind regards, Paul