Jump to content


Photo

My Stage V Vxt….....heater!

heater

  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 KurtVerbose

KurtVerbose

    His Serene Highness

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,742 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Merlischachen
  • Interests:Big baps.

Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:38 PM

You may ask why I’ve made a heater when Fezzasus has developed one. Well I started down this path, buying components, before I heard about Fezzasus’s heater, and no disrespect to Fezzasus, who has delivered magnificently, but we’ve been let down before by someone offering to build a heater.

Let me make it quite clear, I have no interest in selling mine. I’ll happily share information but I’m not selling kits or anything, so am not in competition with Fezzasus. If I hadn’t gone down this path already I would be buying one from him.

I feel the cold. It’s not about de-misting, it’s about being comfortable in a car I commute in year round in Switzerland. The existing heater is totally inadequate for that. If you want to understand my motivation, this is on my route to work 1 month ago: -

Posted Image

The heaters faults are well known.

1) The coolant makes a long tour round the car in exposed aluminium pipes, loosing temperature.

2) The path of the air is long and convoluted, actually doing a complete 360° turn on its way through the cabin bulkhead.

3) The flap takes up a load of space, leaks cold air and frequently jams, as mine did.

4) The radiator is too small. The VX is a small car, but it has lots of exposed aluminium which conducts heat some 5 times better than steel. The cabin has many leaks. The car needs a lot of heat.

5) The fan is inadequate. As well as being too small it sucks warm less dense air from the radiator, instead of blowing cold dense air through it.

6) The air then leaves the heater through some ducting that is long (for a high surface area), corrugated (for a high surface area) and is made from aluminium, which has high thermal conductivity. Additionally, it falls apart if you try and refit it.

So I bought the biggest fan I could find, the 580 cfm unit from T7Design. I bought the biggest radiator I could fit, one from a Honda Prelude – which by volume at least is 50% bigger (I don’t know about fin area). I put the fan below the rad and the exit very near the cabin bulkhead entry. Oh, I constructed it from riveted aluminium, filling the gaps with silicon. Before I installed I covered the outside with insulating tape to try and keep some heat in. Here it is, a bit of a dogs breakfast.

Posted Image

This is the heater installed: -

Posted Image

The heater is actually much narrower than the existing one so is easy to fit, although you do have to remove the bonnet catch. Unfortunately, it’s a little too long, so getting the battery is a squeeze. I think I can trim some insulation off and make this easier.

I intended to use a London taxi water control valve but this proved too difficult to fit in the space. I wonder if this will be a problem? There’s no ram air effect now, so when you turn off the fan there’s no heat. No one uses the fan for ventilation, you take the roof off or wind the windows down. I’ll see if it’s a problem, but I don’t think it will be.

Ok, so, some numbers. Firstly, a disclaimer. I’m not a mathematician, or an engineer. I may have got both disciplines wrong. Corrections gladly received.

The fan uses 40% more electricity, but blows 50% more air.

Posted Image

Or does it?

It’s the air mass we’re interested in. I measured the original heater at 40°c at the dash with an outside temperature of -3°c. The mass of air at 40°c is 1.13 kg per m3. But the new heater is pumping it at ambient temperature, -3°c in this case, where the mass is 1.29 kg per m3. So that should be a 71% improvement in air flow. Given the 8cm diameter of the heater exit the old heater was pumping 5.28kg of air per minute and the new one 9.04 for the same ambiant temperatures.

Maybe.

I recorded a temperature raise of 43 Kelvin for the original and 53 Kelvin for the new. I make that as 3.82kw for the original heater and 8.07kw for the new one, a 211% improvement.

But remember, that was measuring the air speed at the heater outlet and with the rad disconnected. In reality it has to pump the heated air through the bulkhead orifice. I measured only a 32% improvement in air flow at the dash outlet which combined with the increase in temperature gave only a 79% improvement in heat. I took these measurements when the temperature was -3°c for the original heater and +6°c for the new. I suspect that the improvement would be greater if it was -3°c in both cases as it’s the differential between the coolant and the outside air that makes a big difference.

If I’d increased the BHP of my Turbo by the same amount it would be 358bhp – making it a stage V probably, whatever that means.

It’s actually as I suspected, that however big a fan you install you’ll always be restricted by the 8cm diameter of the ducting. I did examine putting a supplementary heater in the cabin but there just isn’t the room.

So what impact has this made on the car?

It’s much more useable in cold weather. I have been introduced to the concept of turning the fan down and even off. I suspect that it’s still not adequate for extreme cold of -14°c, but even my Range Rover, which has a good heater, takes a while to heat up with that temperature.

Can you drive with the top off in the cold? Well, I went out with the hard top off last night in 6°c and it was ok. I was wearing a T shirt and then one of those very thick lumberjack shirts and a hat. My feet were ok, and with a pair of gloves it would be fine.

Incidentally, I bought a heated seat cover and this is brilliant in winter. I saw the guide on inserting heating elements into the existing seats, but I think the covers are a better solution as you can remove them when not needed.

One other thing. It’s difficult to take your coat off when sitting in the VX, and when you do there’s no where to hang it!

All in all, if you use the car in winter, buy Fessasus's heater.

#2 Goosenka

Goosenka

    Jeep Driving jolly nice chap

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,716 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Anywhere near water
  • Interests:Fried breakfasts, coffee and dogs

Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:56 PM

Rock and Roll for having a DIY go buddy :thumbsup: Given its hidden, who cares what it looks like

#3 slindborg

slindborg

    The Bishop of Stortford

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,602 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:57 PM

Tooooooo many words, got a 20 word summar?

#4 Goosenka

Goosenka

    Jeep Driving jolly nice chap

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,716 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Anywhere near water
  • Interests:Fried breakfasts, coffee and dogs

Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:02 PM

Tooooooo many words, got a 20 word summar?


It didn't work before, its better and warmer now.

#5 ChrisS1

ChrisS1

    Club OEM

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,360 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Walers

Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:02 PM

Tooooooo many words, got a 20 word summar?

Haha.

Summary - heater is crap, he made one himself, it's now much better. :D

#6 slindborg

slindborg

    The Bishop of Stortford

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,602 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:04 PM

Benders, I understand that :P

#7 ChrisS1

ChrisS1

    Club OEM

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,360 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Walers

Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:07 PM

It's probably taken you longer to read our gay replies than to just have skim read it haha. :P

#8 XXX

XXX

    Invisible ex-VX owner

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,471 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Croydon, Surrey

Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:08 PM

Tooooooo many words, got a 20 word summar?


Bigger Fan. Bigger rad (Honda Prelude). Lashed into aluminium box. Lots of silicon. Looks ugly. Works a treat

#9 KurtVerbose

KurtVerbose

    His Serene Highness

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,742 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Merlischachen
  • Interests:Big baps.

Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:11 PM

I intended to use a London taxi water control valve but this proved too difficult to fit in the space. I wonder if this will be a problem? There’s no ram air effect now, so when you turn off the fan there’s no heat. No one uses the fan for ventilation, you take the roof off or wind the windows down. I’ll see if it’s a problem, but I don’t think it will be.


Well it turns out that with the fan off you still get heat coming in the cabin. I can only assume that there's a slight suction from the gaps in the windows, etc, and that draws warm air through the heater.

However, if you direct the air to the windscreen and close the vents it's fine. No heat coming through at all, fine for summer days.

The only issue with having no temp control is at some temperatures the lowest fan setting becomes too hot, so you turn it off, then it becomes too cold, so you're flicking between on and off. Not a big issue though.

#10 fezzasus

fezzasus

    Whipping Boy

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,689 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxford

Posted 19 April 2012 - 12:52 PM

The reason the london taxi heater controls are available is because they break regularly. The control I use is from a ford ka

#11 KurtVerbose

KurtVerbose

    His Serene Highness

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,742 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Merlischachen
  • Interests:Big baps.

Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:21 PM

The reason the london taxi heater controls are available is because they break regularly. The control I use is from a ford ka


I'm glad I didn't install it now.

#12 fezzasus

fezzasus

    Whipping Boy

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,689 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxford

Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:05 PM


The reason the london taxi heater controls are available is because they break regularly. The control I use is from a ford ka


I'm glad I didn't install it now.


I can send you full details of the ka diverter and controller if you want/ when it gets hot.

Edited by fezzasus, 19 April 2012 - 02:05 PM.


#13 KurtVerbose

KurtVerbose

    His Serene Highness

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,742 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Merlischachen
  • Interests:Big baps.

Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:03 PM

That's very kind - but it was quite warm when I was in Italy and blocking the vents worked fine. In all truth, I'm now sick of VX heaters!

#14 KurtVerbose

KurtVerbose

    His Serene Highness

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,742 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Merlischachen
  • Interests:Big baps.

Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:12 PM

Well, today was the first test with a very low temperature. -6°C. After 15 mins the car was warm. I was wearing just a suit and it was cozy. I'm a bit surprised as I thought it would struggle at these temperatures. Will post again when it's -14°C.

#15 fezzasus

fezzasus

    Whipping Boy

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,689 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxford

Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:05 PM

The more I use mine the more I'm convinced it has nothing to do with the amount of heat the engine delivers, but simply the inability of the original design to transfer the heat from the water into the air, and subsequently transfer the air into the cabin. It should keep working until it gets so cold that the pipes freeze.

#16 KurtVerbose

KurtVerbose

    His Serene Highness

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,742 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Merlischachen
  • Interests:Big baps.

Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:24 PM

Yes. I haven't even insulated the pipe in the sill but there's still plenty of heat coming from the engine. I had thought the next bottleneck would be the ducting - 8cm through the bulkhead, but I now think there's no problem with it. It really is just the original heater box that is flawed. It's totally and fundamentally utterly crap.

#17 slindborg

slindborg

    The Bishop of Stortford

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,602 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:51 PM

Hence why even my crappy effort was epic (and retained the oem matrix) :lol:

#18 fezzasus

fezzasus

    Whipping Boy

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,689 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Oxford

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:52 PM

Hence why even my crappy effort was epic (and retained the oem matrix) :lol:


Nothing wrong with the original matrix, just difficult to retain when you're trying to meet 70+ orders

#19 slindborg

slindborg

    The Bishop of Stortford

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,602 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:.

Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:56 PM


Hence why even my crappy effort was epic (and retained the oem matrix) :lol:


Nothing wrong with the original matrix, just difficult to retain when you're trying to meet 70+ orders


:lol: and the reason I never bothered trying ;)

#20 KurtVerbose

KurtVerbose

    His Serene Highness

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,742 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Merlischachen
  • Interests:Big baps.

Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:58 AM

Original matrix is way inadaquate if you want a sauna like experience while it's -14 outside, or if you want to avoid the mushroom effect.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: heater

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users