89 replies to this topic

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Some interesting lap time comps here http://www.lotrdc.co..._Bookmarked.pdf Best Elise trophy time I could see on a dry track a 51.2 by Micky Edwards. Anyone know what rubber that quick Evo was running? Suspect hill climb spec Avons? Interesting that the quickest 'club' time would be good for 2nd overall! Funny old series time attack!

That's quite amusing actually as Lloyd is in Pro-Extreme which meant that Club were actually faster than Club-Pro....... I think to even out the traffic a few lads will be moving into Pro class. Makes sense I reckon....

Not sure on tyres. Lloyd was meant to have a logo on his car whowing which tyre brand he chose but he doesn't for some reason....

Here's a great shot of an iconic Time Attack car - The Gobstopper

[cnrandall]

Its quite confusing to follow, particularly as there is a mixture of tyres in the pro class. Don't get that, if they are going slicks in pro they should do it across the board but stick to one brand and restrict compounds so it doesn't become a money pit. I do really like the FTD concept in TA but they really are in disarray with the regs and calendar this year :-(

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Yeah tyre decision was very much last minute this season as Pirelli dicked us about so much last year! Shame as I enjoyed the less competetive control tyre last season. Leveled the playing field and I managed a whole season on one set of tyres Still LOADS left on them too You don't like the calendar? What's FTD? When you out next..?

[siztenboots]

ftd = fastest time of the day

[Mike (Cliffie)]

As a competitor this year I like both the calendar and the tyre ruling and find it easy to understand. I like the fact you can maximise your tyre choice to your driving style and your car and I have no complaints whatsoever. If you think the tyres are confusing, you should try understanding dropped rounds and substitute cars...

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

As a competitor this year I like both the calendar and the tyre ruling and find it easy to understand. I like the fact you can maximise your tyre choice to your driving style and your car and I have no complaints whatsoever.

If you think the tyres are confusing, you should try understanding dropped rounds and substitute cars...

Hmm the tyre thing is tough. I see what you mean, its good that they've allowed poeple I run semi slick tyres but I think everybody should be on the same tyre. it's the only way to make sure it remains fair when conditions change (IMO)

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

ftd = fastest time of the day

Ahhh, I getcha cheers

[cnrandall]

Yeah tyre decision was very much last minute this season as Pirelli dicked us about so much last year! Shame as I enjoyed the less competetive control tyre last season. Leveled the playing field and I managed a whole season on one set of tyres Still LOADS left on them too

You don't like the calendar?

What's FTD?

When you out next..?

Calendar is matter of opinion I guess, and I concede I'm a withered old motorsport competitor with bigoted views... But, no real high quality circuits on there, just the cheap ones that are an arse to get to. Anglesey, twice, then Knockhill and Cadwell but no Brands GP, no Silverstone, no Donington, no Oulton which all smacks of a series with no credibility. Agreed that some of the tracks are good fun, but they are not prestigious.

The tyre fiasco was a joke and, again, comes down to a lack of credibility. Choice is all very well but when you look at the pro class at face value it has the potential to be a massive money pit. If you want to win forget power, big turbos etc the wise money is spend on super soft tyres that do one lap only and that has the potential to get very costly indeed for a championship that has very low visibility and credibility. All comes down to poor choices by the organisers which is why they are struggling for quality entries.

Don't get me wrong, as I said before, I like the FTD concept which is a very pure form of motorsport. I did the Tuner GP twice and really enjoyed it and have often been tempted by a single TA entry but whenever I engage my brain it doesn't actually make sense to enter. I think the Club class makes sense for guys like Mike, Jimmy etc but the Pro class doesn't offer enough at the moment to bring the championship to the level of the Japanese or American equivalent.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Yeah tyre decision was very much last minute this season as Pirelli dicked us about so much last year! Shame as I enjoyed the less competetive control tyre last season. Leveled the playing field and I managed a whole season on one set of tyres Still LOADS left on them too

You don't like the calendar?

What's FTD?

When you out next..?

which is why they are struggling for quality entries.

Jees thanks Chris. I happen to think that even at Club Class there are quality entries. The top four in my class were less than a second apart in the final and if you think Gobstopper or Gavin Renshaw's Evo or the Midlands Performance GTR or Simon Norris' short wheel base Eve are not quality entries then I must disagree with you.

I, like Jimmy have spent a lot of time and effort and a considerable amount of money (for poor folks like us) to compete in Time Attack and comments like you one above don't really make us feel cuddly and warm.

We don't all have funding, backing or cash to run at GT level or even Elise Trophy level but that doesn't mean we don't have quality entries.

OK so we are not at Silverstone GP but we do go to Brands Indy (as does BTCC) and we do go to Snetterton (as does BTCC) and we do go Knockhill (as does BTCC) so are we suggesting BTCC is a championship struggling for credibility?. OK Anglesey is an arse I agree but at least it is a double header for us so we only have to make the trip once and it is a cracking circuit.

There were 53 cars registered for the first round at Cadwell Chris, hardly a championship in trouble or lacking credibility amongst it's competitors or supporters and the bigger rounds will see crowds of 3,000 through the door which kicks the doors off most other club meets.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

It's only 7yr old series Chris. The youngest MSA approved series by a long stretch. Not got the money for the GP circuits yet but it'll come if the series continues to grow. I think with people putting in 1:27's and the like at Cadwell and other circuits people will sit up and take notice. Quicker than any of you GT boys could manage by quite a margin that's Radical SR4 territory!! Agree though currently credibility is low amongst the biggoted old school but so are the costs which makes it great for us guys at the bottom end (as you acknowledge). We NEED some high profile OHW entries Chris. Go on, you know you want to ya chicken.....?

[Mike (Cliffie)]

It's only 7yr old series Chris. The youngest MSA approved series by a long stretch.

Not got the money for the GP circuits yet but it'll come if the series continues to grow.

I think with people putting in 1:27's and the like at Cadwell and other circuits people will sit up and take notice.

Quicker than any of you GT boys could manage by quite a margin that's Radical SR4 territory!!

Agree though currently credibility is low amongst the biggoted old school but so are the costs which makes it great for us guys at the bottom end (as you acknowledge). We NEED some high profile OHW entries Chris. Go on, you know you want to ya chicken.....?

Jamie will whip his bum Jimmy, that is why he won't do it. Who knows, with Club having such a strong showing, he may even be down with Club times...

[cnrandall]

Don't get me wrong guys and please read my comments as intended, I'm not trying to belittle anyone efforts here. It comes down more to what the TA concept really is. In Japan and the States its a showcase for the top tuning companies to show their wares unimpeded by the usual motorsport regulations. If you look at the field in the UK I don't think its achieving the same thing. In the club class its doing a reasonable job of allowing newcomers a road into motorsport at a relatively sensible cost, with more track time on offer than a hillclimb or sprint, but the pro class doesn't really make sense. Over the years there have been a small handful of impressive cars but with 5 seconds between the top two cars in the first event this year it hardly looks like exciting competition in pro.

[cnrandall]

It's only 7yr old series Chris. The youngest MSA approved series by a long stretch.

Not got the money for the GP circuits yet but it'll come if the series continues to grow.

I think with people putting in 1:27's and the like at Cadwell and other circuits people will sit up and take notice.

Quicker than any of you GT boys could manage by quite a margin that's Radical SR4 territory!!

Agree though currently credibility is low amongst the biggoted old school but so are the costs which makes it great for us guys at the bottom end (as you acknowledge). We NEED some high profile OHW entries Chris. Go on, you know you want to ya chicken.....?

Jamie will whip his bum Jimmy, that is why he won't do it. Who knows, with Club having such a strong showing, he may even be down with Club times...

On paper Jamie's car should beat mine pretty convincingly. Mine was built originally for Lotus Cup, his was built with no regulations, so weight/power are restricted, he also has unrestricted aero and flappy paddle box etc. That said, I recon with a bottle of Nitrous strapped on and properly mapped in my car could win but the cost doesn't make sense for me to do it. For one round I would need to buy at least a couple of sets of slicks, a nitrous setup, mapping costs, testing costs so would run to over £5K by the time I'm done and I could go and do a British GT round for that!

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Lol, play nice guys

It's only 7yr old series Chris. The youngest MSA approved series by a long stretch.

Not got the money for the GP circuits yet but it'll come if the series continues to grow.

I think with people putting in 1:27's and the like at Cadwell and other circuits people will sit up and take notice.

Quicker than any of you GT boys could manage by quite a margin that's Radical SR4 territory!!

Agree though currently credibility is low amongst the biggoted old school but so are the costs which makes it great for us guys at the bottom end (as you acknowledge). We NEED some high profile OHW entries Chris. Go on, you know you want to ya chicken.....?

Jamie will whip his bum Jimmy, that is why he won't do it. Who knows, with Club having such a strong showing, he may even be down with Club times...

On paper Jamie's car should beat mine pretty convincingly. Mine was built originally for Lotus Cup, his was built with no regulations, so weight/power are restricted, he also has unrestricted aero and flappy paddle box etc. That said, I recon with a bottle of Nitrous strapped on and properly mapped in my car could win but the cost doesn't make sense for me to do it. For one round I would need to buy at least a couple of sets of slicks, a nitrous setup, mapping costs, testing costs so would run to over £5K by the time I'm done and I could go and do a British GT round for that!

I'm astonished that a single British GT Round costs £5k!!!!

I didn't take your comments as being particularly derogatory, especially to club racers but I do think Time Attack deserves more respect as a discipline in its own right.

There are some great drivers within TA (and some sh*t ones). I'll wager that's the case in many motorsport series's where budget can often overule talent. There are tons of racers in TA who (given the right opportunities) could compete at much higher levels than were they currently find themselves.

So to those that think it's easy..... Come give it a go, it'll be more challenging than you think. To those who respect the series.... Come along too. It's great fun and we need more entrants!!!!

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

With regards to competition at the top..... Lloyd and Wilson are in different classes so it's not a 5 second difference within class. Lloyd is in pro-extreme, Wilson club-pro. Unfortunately Lloyd is the only extreme entrant too which seems a shame but he'll be out to set records everywhere we go and I'm excited to watch him succeed Agreed though we need more big companies fighting it out in Pro for the series to achieve what it does in Japan

[cnrandall]

Lol, play nice guys

It's only 7yr old series Chris. The youngest MSA approved series by a long stretch.

Not got the money for the GP circuits yet but it'll come if the series continues to grow.

I think with people putting in 1:27's and the like at Cadwell and other circuits people will sit up and take notice.

Quicker than any of you GT boys could manage by quite a margin that's Radical SR4 territory!!

Agree though currently credibility is low amongst the biggoted old school but so are the costs which makes it great for us guys at the bottom end (as you acknowledge). We NEED some high profile OHW entries Chris. Go on, you know you want to ya chicken.....?

Jamie will whip his bum Jimmy, that is why he won't do it. Who knows, with Club having such a strong showing, he may even be down with Club times...

On paper Jamie's car should beat mine pretty convincingly. Mine was built originally for Lotus Cup, his was built with no regulations, so weight/power are restricted, he also has unrestricted aero and flappy paddle box etc. That said, I recon with a bottle of Nitrous strapped on and properly mapped in my car could win but the cost doesn't make sense for me to do it. For one round I would need to buy at least a couple of sets of slicks, a nitrous setup, mapping costs, testing costs so would run to over £5K by the time I'm done and I could go and do a British GT round for that!

I'm astonished that a single British GT Round costs £5k!!!!

I didn't take your comments as being particularly derogatory, especially to club racers but I do think Time Attack deserves more respect as a discipline in its own right.

There are some great drivers within TA (and some sh** ones). I'll wager that's the case in many motorsport series's where budget can often overule talent. There are tons of racers in TA who (given the right opportunities) could compete at much higher levels than were they currently find themselves.

So to those that think it's easy..... Come give it a go, it'll be more challenging than you think. To those who respect the series.... Come along too. It's great fun and we need more entrants!!!!

I don't disagree with anything you say and some of the times laid down on road legal rubber are startlingly impressive and that winning lap from the Evo was mighty. Its a hard one though, I mean what constitutes a good time in a series with essentially no regulations? Impressive lap times aside, I do think the series organisers have made a bit of a hash of this year with bad choices on the tyres and an obvious lack of choice on circuits. It would be really nice to see 5-10 cars from top tuning companies with real pro drivers battling over the last 1/10th in the final.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

There will be an epic battle between Norris and Roger Clark Motorsport as the season progresses. Watch this space. £5k,for one round, WTF. I only spent £6k building my car to spec for the season. That has highlighted to real issue with UK Club motorsport right there. Cheque book racing. If you want a championship to succeed at club level then it needs to be affordable to the man on the street otherwise you will have a problem on your hands. £5k is twice my budget for the whole season Chris. At least Time Attack are able to appeal and cater for us poor boys as well as the serious money spenders.

[cnrandall]

There will be an epic battle between Norris and Roger Clark Motorsport as the season progresses. Watch this space.

£5k,for one round, WTF. I only spent £6k building my car to spec for the season. That has highlighted to real issue with UK Club motorsport right there. Cheque book racing.

If you want a championship to succeed at club level then it needs to be affordable to the man on the street otherwise you will have a problem on your hands.

£5k is twice my budget for the whole season Chris. At least Time Attack are able to appeal and cater for us poor boys as well as the serious money spenders.

So you see my point? TA does not have the credibility to justify the cost of competing at the front. What do you recon that Evo at the front cost to build, £150K, £200K, £250k?

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Not really Chris, no. Why does cost need to be justified? Justify any spend in Motorsport and you are buggered. We all do it for kicks and egos nowt else. None of my sponsors expect any business gain out of supporting me, they are in it for the involvement. OK so I am in club but I fully intend to slog it out at the front on my £2.5k season budget and single set of tyres for the year. If Time Attack is below you then so be it but that does not make it useless for everybody else. For me, it is a way of having a go out there with a much reduced fear of damage than something like the Elise Trophy which is a paint swapping formula. For a man with little money I think I have done bloody well to be honest and I found your belittlement of the championship I have chosen to compete in a little insulting to me and the guys in the team. Baring in mind we are a team made up of a Sparky, a Chippie, a Salesman, an engineer, an IT support analyst and a maintenance guy and don't have the support and facilities of a major motorsport company and the car was built in a single garage with no power or light. Saying that, I am not sulking or grumpy about it but that was not really the point in discussion and I digress but I wanted to make a point and remind people that only a small % of motorsport in the UK is the big bucks BTCC, F3 and GT stuff. The vast majority is Fred in the Shed stuff. I have no idea nor do I care how much people have or have not spent in any class of any championship. I spent too many years racing in hill climbs, sprints and championships coming in behind much richer people than me and it is demoralising. But I reckon Gobstopper 2 will represent an investment of no more that £60k-70k. What I have found here is something that I can pitch my car in against all sorts of different machinery and have some fun as well as competitive motorsport action. As far as the lack of top end entries, you need to consider the general state of the tuning marketplace which is not so great out there. That is more of a reflection of the entries into TA in 2013 than any state of the championship.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Mike Chris has said a number of times how club is an excellent class and doing a great job allowing people to get into motorsport in a relatively low budget. I think you're just getting wound up now.

His beef is with Pro and the way it's run. It doesn;t appeal to him for the reasons stated above. They seem legitimate enough reasons from his perspective.

I don't disagree with anything you say and some of the times laid down on road legal rubber are startlingly impressive and that winning lap from the Evo was mighty. Its a hard one though, I mean what constitutes a good time in a series with essentially no regulations? Impressive lap times aside, I do think the series organisers have made a bit of a hash of this year with bad choices on the tyres and an obvious lack of choice on circuits. It would be really nice to see 5-10 cars from top tuning companies with real pro drivers battling over the last 1/10th in the final.

To answer your points (as I think you are missing the point too )...

What constitutes a good time in a series with no regs....?

A time that NOBODY can beat. That's the whole deal. From what I can see the only car's to have completed Cadwell quicker were single seaters (a Jedi and an SR8). That's impressive mate; cannot deny that. If people think lapse regs are the reason and they can do better then come give it a go.... Regs are open to all but I think half is snobbery the other half fear that Time Attack is just quicker than the racing they compete in (Lotus wimps ). We're used to that, we drive Vauxhall's

As for the regs. There are alot of them!! Just no power/weight limitations which allows Time Attack to push the boundries more aggressively than any other current series.

I would love to see Pro pushing harder too but as I said this series is still in it's infancy and is gathering momentum. Less haters required more admiration for what are serious cars out there!!! Heaven knows what went into Lloyd's car in terms of finances but Steve Guglielmi found a way to beat him for the 2009 Championship so lets hope another established Lotus racer gives it a proper chance one day......