32 replies to this topic

[synergy]

HI from Spain, recently i have bought a vx220 turbo,
and i´m a bit worried about the throttle response and turbo lag (and flat spot)

Need to improve that horrible "push and wait" response, for examples in 180º uphill turns in second gear, the engine literally die and no push just in the apex. I want instant response (as possible as this little turbo allows).

What is the Definitive solution??

1.-Remap (stage1 or 2?, what tuning company, Courtenay, vx-performance, other?
2.-back box? (larini or milltek one?)
3.-another essential mod to improve that response, like lightened flywheel, 4.17 gears ratio, airbox mods...

Thank you very much.

Edited by synergy, 24 June 2012 - 04:36 PM.

[VIX]

What is the Definitive solution??

Buy an NA and supercharge it!

PS. And welcome.

Edited by VIX, 24 June 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[synergy]

What is the Definitive solution??

Buy an NA and supercharge it!

PS. And welcome.

come on guys..., no improves possible on tubbys then?

[Bumblebee]

A remap will get rid of the flat spot most people use MMG or Courtney's

[synergy]

A remap will get rid of the flat spot most people use MMG or Courtney's

And most important: improve throttle response and turbo lag?

[MrSimba]

drilled airbox, less restrictive exhaust (no pre-cat & with a 200/100 cell sports cat) uprated engine mounts, lightened flywheel, ballancer shaft removal, underdrive pulley & short belt mod All will help for a more instant throttle response on a VXT

Edited by MrSimba, 24 June 2012 - 05:21 PM.

[synergy]

drilled airbox, less restrictive exhaust (no pre-cat & with a 200/100 cell sports cat) uprated engine mounts, lightened flywheel, ballancer shaft removal, underdrive pulley & short belt mod

All will help for a more instant throttle response on a VXT

Things like that are useful. Thanks MrSimba.
I always thought tha an ECU remap is essential to reduce turbo lag and fine tuning the throttle response.
So in adition to your advice, any remap (stage 1 or 2) improves too? (not sure courtenay, vxperformance,mmg...) or is not neccesary?

Edited by synergy, 24 June 2012 - 05:25 PM.

[Bumblebee]

Gives you an idea of what stage 1,2,3,4 are http://www.mmgperfor...section.php/25/ http://www.courtenay...bo/info_22.html

Edited by Aimy, 24 June 2012 - 05:33 PM.

[MrSimba]

There is a flat spot for emissions control at about 3200rpm which any remap will take out and this will certainly help a lot, if you go for stage 2 you will need the de-restricted exhaust anyway for that. A drill air box costs nothing, search for 'Timbo airbox' on here plenty of guides and advice. After that the flywheel is only really worth doing along with when you need a clutch for labour costs will be high, the under drive pulley & ballancer shaft removal though are both fairly simple and very cheap mods to do at about £150 each. The uprated mount inserts will stop the engine moving and make the response feel a lot better and the engine far more 'connected' to the car!

Edited by MrSimba, 24 June 2012 - 05:32 PM.

[The Batman]

i would fit a NA gearbox if it was me

[JohnTurbo]

Lol. My vxt wasn't laggy at all when standard. If going round the 180 bend your revs dip below 3000 then you'll have no power, suggest a lower gear. There was never a flat spot either! Are you sure there isnt something wrong with it/you or someone hasn't er 'tuned' it before your ownership?

[synergy]

Gives you an idea of what stage 1,2,3,4 are
http://www.mmgperfor...section.php/25/

http://www.courtenay...bo/info_22.html

i know the specs of the different stages, just want to know real users feedback on terms of turbo lag and throttle response, the hp don´t bother me too much now.
Thanks for the links btw

Edited by synergy, 24 June 2012 - 06:04 PM.

[synergy]

Lol. My vxt wasn't laggy at all when standard. If going round the 180 bend your revs dip below 3000 then you'll have no power, suggest a lower gear.

There was never a flat spot either!

Are you sure there isnt something wrong with it/you or someone hasn't er 'tuned' it before your ownership?

maybe I come from a fantastic NA modded motor.

Sure you cannot tell the laggy response of the turbo?? Seems like a lot of folks here has noticed it too....
what were your previous cars??

***I know is a turbo, just want to reduce the lag to near zero, (i said near)

[synergy]

There is a flat spot for emissions control at about 3200rpm which any remap will take out and this will certainly help a lot, if you go for stage 2 you will need the de-restricted exhaust anyway for that.

A drill air box costs nothing, search for 'Timbo airbox' on here plenty of guides and advice.

After that the flywheel is only really worth doing along with when you need a clutch for labour costs will be high, the under drive pulley & ballancer shaft removal though are both fairly simple and very cheap mods to do at about £150 each.

The uprated mount inserts will stop the engine moving and make the response feel a lot better and the engine far more 'connected' to the car!

No doubt again the most useful answer.
Is obvious the z20let have standard lag and a flat spot, the throttle response is poor too.

Do you improve a LOT your feelings about it with the mods you point?
Please extend your answer in terms of % and feeling with each of the mentioned mods.
What stage do you recommend to do with them?

Cheers

How do you compare the after mods and before mods about response and inmediate performance?

Edited by synergy, 24 June 2012 - 06:10 PM.

[JohnTurbo]

Lol....I've not owned anything without a turbo for a very long time. That said amongst them the vx is the least laggy. I very often drive nas of all kinds though, including my partners Astra. Someone from the supercharger fraternity recently drove my turbo and was very surprised that there was next to no lag, and my car is by no means special. It's a small, modern turbo, and the overboost arrangement is optimised to reduce lag.

[synergy]

Lol....I've not owned anything without a turbo for a very long time. That said amongst them the vx is the least laggy. I very often drive nas of all kinds though, including my partners Astra.

Someone from the supercharger fraternity recently drove my turbo and was very surprised that there was next to no lag, and my car is by no means special.

It's a small, modern turbo, and the overboost arrangement is optimised to reduce lag.

What NA Astra motor do you drive sometimes?
Is a little turbo, tunned for emissions, with poor response and lag, as said the other guys, can be improved (and depend on your expectations/feeling) is a must.
Maybe your other cars have bigger turbos and you are inmunized LOL

Cheers

Edited by synergy, 24 June 2012 - 06:37 PM.

[Nev]

Synergy, the factory map that the VX220 Turbo has is well known to have a flat spot. I think a few hundred pounds spent on a stage 1 or 2 map (from MMG or Courtenay) will definitely help your problem a lot. If you really want a snappy rev up though, you need to lighten the rotating assembly like MrSimba has said above, which is more work. Additionally, if you install lighter pistons and connecting rods this helps a lot too. I have done this sort of work on my engine and it is extremely rev happy and snappy in response now and would recommend it.

[jameso]

Standard VXT has a flat torque line from like 2000rpm basically. Just don't go below 2000rpm when driving spiritedly?

[hairy]

I've got a standard turbo, and no real lag issue other than the 3500 rpm region mentioned above. If you are below this region, as per exiting a sharp bend you should be Ok. So is there another problem - is it just bends or uphill acceleration?

[JohnTurbo]

There are certainly issues....such as the plastic boost pipe collapsing etc, but I certainly believe as stock that lag is low for a turbo. Yours is not a common complaint. I had a car with ceramic compressor and turbine to reduce the 2nd moment of area, and despite that it was still much more laggy than the vx. In my experience the ecotec engines are all slow revving though. The Astra is a 1.6. The na vxs ive driven have felt much more like the turbo than I would have expected too. Actually I was driving a Panda round the mountains of Mallorca last week, and that definitely had no power round those 180 uphill hairpins.