26 replies to this topic

[Steelic]

Does anyone know if I was to modify/enlarge my OEM 70mm MAF on to a larger diameter pipe 'Nev' style would it then need a remap or not?

[Bumblebee]

It would need a remap, il wait for someone to confirm though

[Nev]

Does anyone know if I was to modify/enlarge my OEM 70mm MAF on to a larger diameter pipe 'Nev' style would it then need a remap or not?

Yes, you will need a 'tweak' to the map (not a full remap). Ideally what should happen is that a new calibration curve is calulated from flowing the unit on a bench, however this is not viable in practice as a one off as your mapper wont know or care how to do it in all liklihood. There are machines than can do this on the market, however they are not cheap.

Instead, what your mapper will likely do is change the overall coeficient that expresses the increase in cross sectional area of the new pipe, on the assumption that the dynamic flow characteristics of the new pipe will be the same as OEM and upscale exactly (which it probably will do closely in practice). In effect this is a very small/simple change, so make sure you don't get robbed by your mapper for a princely sum!

As an interim solution whilst you need to drive with the new MAF installed, you can simply leave it unplugged and the ECU will run the car in open loop mode.

Edited by Nev, 09 October 2012 - 07:24 AM.

[Steelic]

Thanks Nev, I'm running Courtenay stage 4 at the moment and knowing the cost of a remap this may put me off the mod. Not sure if Courtenays stage 4 remap has changed from 2008 when the car was modified or how much a tweak would cost.

[MrSimba]

Not sure how it works if you are the 'second' owner of the map, but normally to update a map it's just the dyno time thats charged

[Nev]

Thanks Nev, I'm running Courtenay stage 4 at the moment and knowing the cost of a remap this may put me off the mod. Not sure if Courtenays stage 4 remap has changed from 2008 when the car was modified or how much a tweak would cost.

They have a couple of stage 4 maps I think which have deffo changed over the years. In theory you should not need a dyno run as the ECU can self learn and adjust fueling dynamically, but in practice I would put it on for a couple of pulls just for peace of mind. I guess you'd have to ring them to find out the cost/effort for sure.

Edited by Nev, 09 October 2012 - 08:02 AM.

[Steelic]

Emailed Courtenays this morning there response was: Hi Thanks for your email Any change of air flow meter will mean that the 0-5v scale is different and the ecu will need recalibrating and setting up for the new air flow meter, which is one thing we mention on our website when fitting the 80mm AFM. The cost to do the mapping work will be £325.00 Regards Mark £325 . . . not sure about the gains with this single mod', if I was making several upgrades then maybe the expense could be justifed.

[Steelic]

Not sure how it works if you are the 'second' owner of the map, but normally to update a map it's just the dyno time thats charged

Yes, Mark has since explained that the cost is higher since I am not the original person who had the remap done so I would be charged for a new software licence.

[Nev]

It's certainly not worth doing the mod on it's own. I would suggest improving the entire inlet + boost pipework, balancer shaft delete, big top hat etc (if not already done), then you'd see some extra power with a remap to make it worth while. Can you publish your entire list of mods pls.

Edited by Nev, 09 October 2012 - 11:43 AM.

[slindborg]

lol that email nearly had me convinced with the wording, then it changed back to mapping and I was safely reassured of the chooning industry

Not sure how it works if you are the 'second' owner of the map, but normally to update a map it's just the dyno time thats charged

Yes, Mark has since explained that the cost is higher since I am not the original person who had the remap done so I would be charged for a new software licence.

I need to tell work so we can work out if there is a new owner of a car and disable the radio/nav/mp3 playback until they purchase a new license from us.... great business model

Edited by slindborg, 09 October 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[Steelic]

It's certainly not worth doing the mod on it's own. I would suggest improving the entire inlet + boost pipework, balancer shaft delete, big top hat etc (if not already done), then you'd see some extra power with a remap to make it worth while. Can you publish your entire list of mods pls.

Charge Cooler c/w Proalloy Rad', VXR Turbo c/w Courtenay Actuator, Courtenay airbox mod', VXR Injectors, Helix clutch & lightened Fly, aftermarket exhaust 2.75"?? Irid' 7 plugs and S4 remap.

Was looking to eventually have 76mm or 80mm intake with bigger MAF, Forge Recirc, add std IC in series with CC + bigger pipes, Balancer del' and pulley kit, S/S tophat with DV outlet for DV30 to inlet mod' then possibly Romanian copy Inlet Manifold with enlarged TB.

[Steelic]

lol that email nearly had me convinced with the wording, then it changed back to mapping and I was safely reassured of the chooning industry

Not sure how it works if you are the 'second' owner of the map, but normally to update a map it's just the dyno time thats charged

Yes, Mark has since explained that the cost is higher since I am not the original person who had the remap done so I would be charged for a new software licence.

I need to tell work so we can work out if there is a new owner of a car and disable the radio/nav/mp3 playback until they purchase a new license from us.... great business model

Yeah, if I buy a Computer then sell it the software still gets upgraded

[mbes2]

For about 6 months now I have been having MAF-from-hell issues.....

 

This part "[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]0-5v scale is different" .... The sensor I've borrowed the internal end of the sensor is different to all the others I've been testing with...[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]So ....... Everyone tells me the sensor module itself is the same but I'm starting to think not... [/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Clam is back on and will give it a good blast tomorrow if its dry out with a real VXR 80mm maf... [/color]

 

Apart from "its the same" comment all over the internet, has anyone really checked the sensor details ??  (I can't remove the sensor as im only borrowing it) 

[chickendippers]

The sensor element itself is different on both a 70mm and 80mm MAF. If you blow your 80mm MAF, you can't then replace the sensor with one from a 70mm MAF. If you want to do it cheaply, buy a blown 80mm MAF, use a 70mm sensor in there and get it mapped to suit. Then if it blows, only £20 for another sensor

[mbes2]

The sensor element itself is different on both a 70mm and 80mm MAF. If you blow your 80mm MAF, you can't then replace the sensor with one from a 70mm MAF. If you want to do it cheaply, buy a blown 80mm MAF, use a 70mm sensor in there and get it mapped to suit. Then if it blows, only £20 for another sensor

Perfect, now its all starting to make sense and the fact I've been chasing my tail. Test drive today to be 100% sure she runs ok... atleast I've got removing the rear clam down to 20min

[siztenboots]

if you just upgrade from a 70mm to 80mm MAF , then you only have to update one table in the ecu , "Linearization of the hot-film voltage - MLHFM"

 

The total air mass flowing through the measuring tube is determined by means of calibration, known as the characteristic-curve definition.

 

This is a series of 512 16bit values that are published by Bosch for each MAF sensor.

 

If Courtenay charge "[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]The cost to do the mapping work will be £325.00" , then I am happy to do it for a substantial less , plus the saving in travel costs.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Ideally if there was a central location , then I could do several in one day, and save you all a trip to Norfolk.[/color]

[tibby]

Enlarging your existing Maf OR new housing (rs4 housing,.... housing) with an oem z20let (h) sensor means new calibration of the custom lmm. My car spend a day on the dyno for just calibrating the custom Maf (rs4 housing with let(h) sensor in it. Afther this my car could be mapped properly... Every tuner has the values of an oem let,leh,rs4 ,....maf. So they can map your car with these oem programs BUT when using a custom made maf, that's another story....

[siztenboots]

why use a custom made maf tube , when the Bosch ones are very good and come in sizes to suit all airflow demands

 

if you stick to oem suppliers with suitable ranges for MAF sensor, Fuel Injectors, MAP sensor and control solenoids, then you can just program this into Motronic and it will be setup and calibrated without need for a dyno.

 

 

 

 

 

[Samwise]

I'm going to be going through a similar process very soon. Once the engine has been rebuilt with LEH Pistols, Steel rods, EDS manifold + 80mm maf fitted I was going to take the car to courtney's for a full remap. However hoping to save myself a bit of money on the new MAF, what is this RS4 housing? I assume it is just a case of purchasing an RS4 MAF housing and then dropping the MAF sensor from the 70mm Z20let maf in to this housing?

 

Can someone clarify? and if there are any suggestions regarding the rest of the above please let me know

[tibby]

I'm going to be going through a similar process very soon. Once the engine has been rebuilt with LEH Pistols, Steel rods, EDS manifold + 80mm maf fitted I was going to take the car to courtney's for a full remap. However hoping to save myself a bit of money on the new MAF, what is this RS4 housing? I assume it is just a case of purchasing an RS4 MAF housing and then dropping the MAF sensor from the 70mm Z20let maf in to this housing?   Can someone clarify? and if there are any suggestions regarding the rest of the above please let me know

Yes , scroll down page http://www.speedster...=5571&start=720

Edited by tibby, 03 February 2016 - 01:08 AM.