32 replies to this topic

[ant1]

Had a rolling road day a few months ago at AMD good day but disappointed with figures. Had cheap tesco fuel, but has itg carbon filter and piper exhaust I think. 148.6hp. Torque 155lb/ft @ 4184rpm. Is this normal? Since the rolling road session I've ported my throttle body and feathered the butterfly to help with throttle response.

[Nelly Vx]

Just get it Supercharged . Job done ;-)

[p13]

Plenty for a zafira, don't you think ? I got an N/A too mate ... i'm sc-ing it.

[smiley]

Is this normal?

Yes. Bigger gains in air intake and remap.
Not fiddeling with the tb and exhaust.

Save your monies for an SC.

[ant1]

Bummer :-( wanted to stay away from turbos and sc's after years of having Turbo'd cars. Oh well.

[techieboy]

Fit ITB's then, if you don't want to supercharge it (which is nothing like a turbo'd car). All of the money of the SC conversion but none of the power.

[p13]

Fit ITB's then, if you don't want to supercharge it (which is nothing like a turbo'd car). All of the money of the SC conversion but none of the power.

Does sound sweet though...

[techieboy]

Not that sweet. At least not on this engine.

[Sticky]

Not that sweet. At least not on this engine.

Hmmm.....

[p13]

Not that sweet. At least not on this engine.

The z22se does sound a bit kak ...
Heard some ITB setups before on old ford fiestas and such, they sounded pretty good.

I'm working on an unequal length header for the z22se. I don't know what to expect, but hopefully it'll at least sound a bit more interesting.

Edited by p13, 25 February 2013 - 10:19 PM.

[smiley]

Does sound sweet though...

[p13]

[slindborg]

That's nice standard power for a nice standard engine.... The mods you have do fcuk all bar noise incase you were wondering lol

[Captain Vimes]

I was hoping to tune the 2zz too but the site below convinced me otherwise: http://www.dyno-plot...Vx220/index.htm If you look at the 2.2 na's and overlay the graphs you'll see that all tuning will do is take torque from the midrange and add it back in further up the graph. So you might see gains at the top but it will be at the expense of mid range.... Which you kind of expect with NA tuning. The full blown ITB's look good until you factor the cost and compare it to a sc'd car. The fact is the 2zz is a long stroke Eco engine which lends itself to supercharging much better than NA tuning. You can overlay dyno graphs on that site, try comparing a fully tuned 2zz on ITB's to a k20 Honda (civic type r) and you'll see what a short stroke engine with variable valve timing can do in comparison! Then add a supercharged 2zz and I think the point is quite compelling. I'll try and get somegraphs up to show what I'm saying but I'm on the iPad at the moment which makes it tricky...

Edited by Captain Vimes, 25 February 2013 - 11:36 PM.

[Captain Vimes]

Right, my iPad wouldn't show any graphs on that site so I've tried to use my phone as well. Apologies for the poor quality....

Key to the dyno:


Dyno graphs:


My conclusions are:

-The 2.4 inlet mod takes away 10-15bhp at 4k rpm and you don't get any increase in power until after 5k rpm
- Courtney stage 5 NA tuning makes a good improvement but costs a fortune and still isn't as good as a standard Honda with less capacity...
- the stage 2 sc wins everywhere

Hope that helps. I'd be happy if my standard NA is producing 148bhp.

[techieboy]

2.4 inlet doesn't take anything away, as long as you have some other mods and it's mapped to suit.

The middle lines on this graph was when I had the 2.4 inlet and a proper exhaust manifold (lowest was standard, then Stage 2+ NA, then 2.4 inlet, then Stage 2 SC and finally Stage 3 SC).

[Captain Vimes]

I've trawled through quite a few dyno plots on z22se.co.uk and various site. Not losing torque in the mid range with the 2.4 inlet seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Perhaps mapping is the key? Not sure I believe the graphs above as the peak torque figures seem too high for some of the plots. It's reasonable to expect torque to be well aligned at low revs so jumps at 1500 rpm look suspicious. Would be interesting to replot your graphs with a % correction to align torque.

[techieboy]

Mapping was certainly the key. Vocky, MartinS and I where the only people that went through the pain of weeks and weeks of remapping by TMS and Superchips to get any results and until the "Dutch" ECU reflash they were the only people that ever got any results from it. It was also probably the best iteration of the car that I've had fun wise. Everybody else either hasn't bothered getting any mapping at all and expected it to just work or took it elsewhere where the rev limit was raised and not much else. What can I say, the three lowest lines where all on the same dyno. When dyno'd again at Courtenay's on their dyno, before the SC conversion, the 2.4 inlet graph was almost identical to within something like 2bhp at peak power.

[Captain Vimes]

Good to know the background. Having been out in an elise 111r with the 180bhp Toyota engine, I'd love to get the na to a genuine 180bhp but it certainly doesn't sound easy....

[vocky]

180bhp is quite easy, skim 1mm from the head, open up the exhaust ports, remove the balancer shafts, fit some stage 1 cams, fit a 2.4 inlet and a 4-1 manifold with a decent exhaust system Going past 250bhp NA is the expensive option