533 replies to this topic

[VXT Tim]

He's as informative as he is intolerable.

Thing is he is informative and very tolerable when you meet him.

  I've met him.

Key Board Warrior LOL

Ding

[Nev]

Good God, I have finally read this painful saga, as my Nitrons have allowed more dings to appear on my rear upper wishbones.

 

However, in all of this there doesn't seem to be any info on how to get and fit the longer eylets for the short length Nitrons - can anyone help?

 

Also, can someone explain why installing thicker foam bump stops isn't a good solution, as that looks to be practical and easy to do?

Edited by Nev, 27 April 2016 - 07:07 PM.

[harboged]

Sooo...are the 46's worth the extra money when it comes to performane on track? Skickat från min SM-G800F via Tapatalk

[Foxy]

Good God, I have finally read this painful saga, as my Nitrons have allowed more dings to appear on my rear upper wishbones.   However, in all of this there doesn't seem to be any info on how to get and fit the longer eylets for the short length Nitrons - can anyone help?   Also, can someone explain why installing thicker foam bump stops isn't a good solution, as that looks to be practical and easy to do?

Did you get this sorted Nev?

[leevx2.2]

Sooo...are the 46's worth the extra money when it comes to performane on track? Skickat från min SM-G800F via Tapatalk

No as most people who have bought the 46"s  have changed to diffrent shocks .i would say the 40'S are better than 46's

The way i see  it is Nitron developed the 46's to make a better shock but the difference in performane just isn't there if its not broke don't fix it .

Edited by leevx2.2, 03 August 2016 - 12:21 PM.

[siztenboots]

ntr-40 front

ntr-46 rear , hoffman valving

 

I still kept my ntr-40 rears , so I could try a back to back test, probably not notice much difference.

 

for me road manners are equally as important as track ultimate grip, at the moment the track balance is exceptional.

[MAXR]

...The question was which was better for track.

 

Lee's right. 46's are no better than 40's. So, It's not worth upgrading. In fact, If I was given a choice from the Nitron range at the moment, I'd go with 40's on my VX.

 

However, I still believe the Quantums have far a far better judged valving setup which allows for superior tyre contact with the tarmac compared to either of the Nitron options.

 

 

 

 

[Acidpopstar]

Doesn't a lot of it come down to just that though - the valving? I'll be sending my NTR40s off for revalving to a specification based on my usage of the car. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hughcam]

Interesting on reading the above. I bouight the latest NTR 40's with Hoffmans valving last year. I specced a slighlty too soft front spring at 400 with 550 at the rear and on my old 111r the roll into corners on track felt a little unbalanced front to rear. 

 

I will definitely try quantum's when I go to an Exige V6 next year

[Crabash]

I went from NTR40 (hoffmans) to 46Race (Trackday Pro spec) with much harder springs and found the damping on road to be less crashy. I bought them before the naming reshuffle at Nitron so not sure how different they are to the newer NTR40 and 46.

[mysterstreet]

Hi,

 

I also bought a set of Nitron NTR shocks (40mm) , Fast Road specs, for my Elise - I think exactly same damper mounts as VX220. And I had some issues when trying to analyze/understand how it works, therefore I found your very interesting and comprehensive post.

 

So eventually I got similar conclusions :

- rear dampers seem ok (open length 428mm with ~82mm stroke until bump contact, compared to OEM Bilstein measured at 417 / 58  => increased stroke for Nitrons, with quite 50/50 bump/droop strokes when I measure the lenght at static height)

- but front dampers show same issue as you :

    open length 328mm (Bilstein : 354mm)

    stroke 43mm (Bilstein 54mm)

=> length when compressed to bump contat 285mm (Bilstein 300mm)

    length 311mm at static ride height (120/125mm , lowered by 10mm from original ride height)

 

So I'm concerned with following topics :

- Nitron claims that FastRoad shock can run "at original ride height or slightly lower" - but it seems impossible, except if it can accept no droop at all

- even with -10mm lowering (I had to lower the car at 120/125mm with full tank and 80kg load), 311mm length means that droop is 40% only of full stroke. Seems quite low, as Bilstein OEM was ~65% droop (more droop than bump)

And I feel that droop is not enough, as I've been testing my new shocks on my favourite bumpy road : in some cases, front wheels lose contact of the ground (I have to say that it's in hardcore portions with reasonably high speeds, but well ...)

- additionnaly, overall stroke of the damper is offset compared to Bilstein : I lost 26mm stroke for droop (open length 326 vs. 354), and more 15mm on bump direction (285 vs. 300)  => the wheel will probably touch the wheel arch in hard compressions

 

What do you think ?

Are my FastRoad shocks compliant with Nitron specs, or did they send me a wrong spec (Track day or Race versions that are too short ?) ?

If it's "normal" spec for FastRoad, what should be the appropriate setting for having acceptable droop/bump balance ?

 

Hope my english is not too bad for describing my conclusions.

Thanks for any answer and confirmation or help to get further specs understanding,

 

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Just a note because we've discussed the rears at length - I hope everyone is aware the front situation is very much the same, with the exception of the potential to damage wishbones.

 

I'm hoping the results of this will be very positive!

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Just to check I did some measurements on the front yesterday. Disclaimer: my car, my Nitrons (40's older ones).

- dampers full open: 325 mm

- dampers close till bumpstop: 285 mm

 

 

 

...

 

Not too bad, certainly not compared to the back. Could perhaps use a little more droop. If you increase the length with say 10 mm, you have about 15 mm more droop at the wheel and 15 mm less bump. But the bumpstop figures in large here. In case the available damper travel is 60 mm (bumpstop compressed to 10 mm instead of the 15 mm above), you have about 90 at the wheel and could get to 35 bump, 55 droop

 

Would be nice if someone else measures too and compare results.

 

 

[Exmantaa]

stroke 43mm

Hi,
 
I also bought a set of Nitron NTR shocks (40mm) , Fast Road specs, for my Elise - I think exactly same damper mounts as VX220. And I had some issues when trying to analyze/understand how it works, therefore I found your very interesting and comprehensive post.
 
So eventually I got similar conclusions :
- rear dampers seem ok (open length 428mm with ~82mm stroke until bump contact, compared to OEM Bilstein measured at 417 / 58  => increased stroke for Nitrons, with quite 50/50 bump/droop strokes when I measure the lenght at static height)
- but front dampers show same issue as you :
    open length 328mm (Bilstein : 354mm)
    stroke 43mm (Bilstein 54mm)
=> length when compressed to bump contat 285mm (Bilstein 300mm)
    length 311mm at static ride height (120/125mm , lowered by 10mm from original ride height)
 
So I'm concerned with following topics :
- Nitron claims that FastRoad shock can run "at original ride height or slightly lower" - but it seems impossible, except if it can accept no droop at all
- even with -10mm lowering (I had to lower the car at 120/125mm with full tank and 80kg load), 311mm length means that droop is 40% only of full stroke. Seems quite low, as Bilstein OEM was ~65% droop (more droop than bump)
And I feel that droop is not enough, as I've been testing my new shocks on my favourite bumpy road : in some cases, front wheels lose contact of the ground (I have to say that it's in hardcore portions with reasonably high speeds, but well ...)
- additionnaly, overall stroke of the damper is offset compared to Bilstein : I lost 26mm stroke for droop (open length 326 vs. 354), and more 15mm on bump direction (285 vs. 300)  => the wheel will probably touch the wheel arch in hard compressions
 
What do you think ?
Are my FastRoad shocks compliant with Nitron specs, or did they send me a wrong spec (Track day or Race versions that are too short ?) ?
If it's "normal" spec for FastRoad, what should be the appropriate setting for having acceptable droop/bump balance ?
 
Hope my english is not too bad for describing my conclusions.
Thanks for any answer and confirmation or help to get further specs understanding,

 
Your fronts seem to be close to "normal" Nitron spec, as my fronts measured 325-326mm open length with ~48mm travel without the stop. (add 10mm bump stop compression.)

You:
open length = 328mm
compressed to bump contact = 285mm (stroke 43mm, with bump stop ~53mm?)
Your static ride height = 311mm (17mm droop & 26mm bump travel. Incl stop ~36mm bump.)

 

So to get near 50:50 at your static ride height you can lower the front mounting bracket position. A 5mm change would give you around 22 / 21mm (simplified, as the shock is at an angle...) And if you add the extra bump stop compliance travel, an 8mm lowered bracket will give you 25mm droop/ 18mm bump + ~10mm stop travel.

(with 8mm you can just drill an extra hole for the M8 bolt in your bracket, but do use a big washer on the bolt!)

 

And take note that the added extra droop can cause stiff springs to become loose at full travel...

 

PS; front wheel ratio is around 1.45, so this 8mm added shock droop will give you ~12mm extra wheel droop. 

 

 

[mysterstreet]

Thanks a lot for your detailed answer.
So, if my shocks are « normal Â» spec for FastRoad , it means that somehow Nitron lies when they promise « the ability to run at original ride heights (and slightly lowered if required) « ... if so, I find it quite disappointing from such a famous company in LiR world.

And I understand that ideal set up is 50:50 droop/bump balance at static ride height ? As Bilstein original setting is 65% droop, I was wondering if Nitrons would have different target set-up (but so far, Nitron never answered to my question).

About lowering the brackets : I’m not so pleased with drilling extra holes with maybe weakening the steel eventually. And I will have an issue on right side, with ABS unit that will not fit anymore with the bracket ?

[chriss]

I haven't read all 27 pages but most of them, pheew...

 

I bought a second hand speedster (I'm in Sweden) with nitrons on it. Is 40 and 46 the piston size or outer diameter of the shock? My shock diameter is 46mm.

 

My rear dampers are to short 305mm compressed and 390mm fully open and accordning to my measurements and the info I found in this thread I need to lengthen them 25-30mm. 

Waiting for an answer from Nitron if they have 30mm longer eyelets. They offer 20mm for 46.65 + vat each.  Has anyone got som second hand for sale or cheaper alternative?

 

Going for the fast road 400/475 springs. 

I have 475/550 on at the moment but its way to harsh, and the rears had 30mm of preload and 0 drop to get 125mm rideheght with 8" spings. This would explain the harshness aswell. 

So what length springs would I need and would I need helper springs? Loose springs on full drop is a mot failure so thats not an option. Would like stockish ride helght 120/130.

Could I reuse my 6" 475 for the rear if I bought a stiff "helper" spring or am i going to get a funny progressive spring?

I haven't finished measuring the front yet but the damper is 325mm fully extended, so I would like to double check the travel and what length springs would I need and helpers?