31 replies to this topic

[Ssymes007]

What is included in a supercharger kit (eg what is everything you need to increase power by approx 100hp in a sc kit)?

[ArticMonkey]

SC list here is Rich's list From USA -Saturn Ion/Cobalt SS Supercharger/Harrop LSJ (will require a BIG pulley at stage 2) -Saturn Ion/Cobalt SS inlet manifold -Saturn Ion/Cobalt 2.0 SC throttle body -Gasket supercharger --> inlet manifold Available from Courtenay Sport (along with remapping) -Inlet manifold support bracket -Gasket inlet manifold --> head -Map sensor -Inlet manifold alignment bungs x2 -On/off boost blank -Aux tensioner -Belt -Z20LET injectors -Bosch injector plug sockets with pins x4 -Plug socket covers x4 -Large cotton gauze filter, 70mm internal diameter -Long silicone pipe for filter (300mm x 70mm) -Alloy joiner for air filter, 70mm -M6x80 bolts x2 -M6x40 bolts x 5 -M6 washers x 7 -M8x140 bolts x2 - alternator tensioner bracket -Fused 4 pin relay - cc pump -Dipstick relocation bracket -4 x bolts charger --> inlet manifold -Oil catch tank -Breather filter -EGR blanking plate -EGR cheater -Jubilee clips 60-80mm variety x3 -Jubilee clips 20-32mm variety x3 -Loom tape -Corsa top hose -250mm of 3mm internal diameter silicone tube (fpr pipe) Charge cooling -Pre rad (preferably pro alloy one with twin fans) -Duel pass mod (recommended) -50mm grommets x2 -Charge cooler pump - Bosch 12v -Hose x 9m -Jubilee clips 40-60mm variety x12 -90 degree elbows for hose x2 (3 if dual pass) -Y piece for hose (if dual pass) -Straight joiners x3 (only 1 for dual pass) -Charge cooler header tank -Alloy joiner with offset temperature sensor socket -Temperature sensor, for fan mod -5 litres of coolant Extras - if not already fitted -All alloy radiator (highly recommended) -100 Amp alternator, also requires modifying

[ArticMonkey]

I have a spare manifold support bracket if you want one? 12 week lead time if not.

[Ssymes007]

What is the cost of each kit?

[ArticMonkey]

It's not a kit. You have to buy bits from different places. Most of the parts come from CS, SC from the US and charge cooler rad from Pro Alloy. You'll be looking at £2500 to do a proper job of it all. Or £3500 to get two guys off here to build and complete for you. That all includes a base map which means a trip to CS in Norfolk for final mapping of the car.

[Ssymes007]

Whats the reliability like when the sc is fitted?

[ArticMonkey]

I'm now going to point you in the direction of the 'SEARCH' button. Magical things appear when you type in words.

[Acidpopstar]

If you've got the cash just do it. I would but funds not there yet

[Ssymes007]

Ive typed in "words" but nothings come up on the search! I was expecting magical things?!?!?!

[ArticMonkey]

Type in supercharge conversion then. Reliability is the same as a 2.2, just as long as you stick under 260bhp and top up oil more often.

[Ssymes007]

Ok cheers matey, think i'm going to go for it and see what happens

[Hark]

Type in supercharge conversion then. Reliability is the same as a 2.2, just as long as you stick under 260bhp and top up oil more often.

You reckon above stage 2 is noticeably less reliable then?

[fezzasus]

 

Type in supercharge conversion then. Reliability is the same as a 2.2, just as long as you stick under 260bhp and top up oil more often.

You reckon above stage 2 is noticeably less reliable then?

 

 

I think he means the con rods give in above 260. 

 

Personally I'm going to keep my stage 2 for as long as I can resist more power. It's a lot of money to get more out of the engine (forged internals) and while I have the luxury of the Dutch software, everything i've seen with the CS map makes me think it's out of its comfort zone above stage 2.

[smiley]

 and see what happens

 

A smile on your face, that will not dissapear for days after the conversion.

[Hark]

I thought he meant rods Tom but just checking. Not sure stage 3 mapping is any worse than stage 2 mind you. Cold starts on stage 2 are hardly oem. �

[fezzasus]

They are with the Dutch software, you can't tell it isn't an NA until you put your foot down.

[Hark]

Who's running that so far?? DIY mapping is beyond me as well. (By such a huge margin lol)

[fezzasus]

I am.

 

It's pretty easy to map, about an hour and a half of driving around until you don't get the EML light anymore.

 

Strongly recommend it for anyone planning to supercharge, or who are planning further developments to theirs. I'm happy to help if you go down that route.

Edited by fezzasus, 10 August 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[myles]

I am.

 

It's pretty easy to map, about an hour and a half of driving around until you don't get the EML light anymore.

 

Strongly recommend it for anyone planning to supercharge, or who are planning further developments to theirs. I'm happy to help if you go down that route.

 

You'd be an absolute pariah on the Subaru forum I used to frequent. Someone once said they were mapping their own car, this was the outcome:-

 

1. Your car will explode.

2. Only the experienced and popular mappers can map safely.

3. Someone posts that one of those mappers blew his engine up.

4. Battle lines are drawn between rival mappers and their acolytes.

5. Everyone are friends again, but they all remember the utter bastard that first mentioned that they were mappig their car.

[fezzasus]

hahah, glad i'm on this forum then!

 

to be fair, Peter (the person who wrote the tuning software) has made it very easy to map, so it might not be as accessible for different cars. Generally the aftermarket ECUs make it easy though, it's their main selling point!

 

Since there hasn't been much discussion on how the Dutch ECU is mapped, I will go into it here.

 

There are two modes of fuelling (and more general engine operation), put simply, and not entirely accurately (but close enough for this description, they are:

 

Open loop: the ECU only uses pre-programed fuelling tables with some input from engine temperature and air density

 

Closed loop: the ECU uses the lambda sensors to adjust fuelling and correct if lean or rich.

 

Normally the ECU uses closed loop at low RPM and open loop at higher RPM, this is because at higher RPM the engine develops much more power to extra fuel is required to keep the engine cool (adding more fuel drops above the stoichiometric ratio drops the engine temperature).

 

To map the fuelling required, the ECU is set to open loop across the whole rev range. Initially this requires a rich base map which overfuels across the rev range to protect the engine. You then drive around trying to hit all the RPM settings (easy, about 5 seconds at 2000 rpm, 5 at 2200 rpm ect..) and boost levels (more difficult - different levels of acceleration generate different boost levels, but manageable with some time) to allow the ECU to learn how much fuel is needed at each boost and rpm level. It then applies a fuel trim to the map to give you your final fuel map.

 

the way the Dutch ECU implements this learn session is by setting the EML light to come on when there isn't enough measurements for a given rpm/boost level. You keep driving the same way you are until the light goes out, then go up the rev range to the next time the light comes on.

 

This can be done by someone who doesn't know the implications of what they are doing, providing they do the following.

 

1. Ensure the base fuel map is over fuelling (running rich), this is done by entering the fuel learn mode and going for a quick drive, if the ECU is reducing the fuelling then the learned fuel trims will have a negative number. This means the base map is safe and you are free to continue mapping.

 

2. keep driving until the EML light isn't on.