443 replies to this topic

[Bargi]

After doing a fuel learn session with logging I had a look over the data and my IATs are barely dropping below 50 degrees and that's only when cruising on a motorway with lots of airflow.(and it's only just under 50)

This just seems way too high, I would have thought cruising it shouldn't be more than 15-20 degrees over ambient at most.

 

Charge cooler is the standard pro alloy CC setup with dual pass mod.

Checked and fans running in the right direction (although wouldn't affect cruising when they're not running)

Can see water being pumped into the charge cooler tank

 

I've been on the CS map for over 2 years and recently moved to OBDTuner with TMAP which is why I've noticed it.

Not had any issues previously and car been comparable with other stage 2 SC's on track even on really hot days.

 

It almost looks like the charge cooling is doing nothing at all, am I really a stage 1! 

I'm almost starting to think the radiator and CC rad could be around the wrong way.

Even if the charge cooling failed would you expect IATs as high as I'm seeing?

 

 

[Bargi]

ignore the big jumps at the end, it's when the laptop went to sleep

[fezzasus]

how much flow rate are you getting from the pump? There are three different types usually used, a 5l/min,10 and 15. I've seen my new 15l/min has a significantly higher flow rate than a used 15l/min one on the same setup. As a general observation the flow from mine hits the back of the tank as a full stream. 

[siztenboots]

good point, my CC dates from 2007 so probably pump should be replaced. More pump flow presumably means more current draw.

[Steve.i.am]

Interesting. Those inlet temps i agree look far too high.

 

On part throttle the charger bypass valve will directing airflow direct into the manifold and bypassing the charger - so in that instance I wouldn't expect to see the inlet temps very much higher than ambient? Is your TMAP sensor sending accurate temp values? How warm is the coolant in the CC circuit after a run?

 

Whats interesting about those graphs is that there's almost an inverse relationship to what you'd expect. On lower rpm parts, the inlet temps are higher and visa versa.

[fezzasus]

That would make sense though. High rpm = more air flow = more cooling of charge circuit.

[Rosssco]

Remember that the SC unit and manifold will retain some heat (simply because they are in the engine bay and attached to a 90 degree engine..) so temps will only drop significnatly after perhaps long periods of sustained off-boost airflow..

 

A Phenolic intake spacer may help prevent heat build up if not already fitted..

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

What pulley are you on I see temps as high as 65-69 on track I'm on a 3.1 pulley

[Steve.i.am]

That would make sense though. High rpm = more air flow = more cooling of charge circuit.

 

Errrm. I'd expect higher rpm = wider throttle (in general) = more boost = more heat placed into the inlet charge by the supercharger.

 

Can we have inlet pressure (boost) graph overlaid onto the two we already have?  

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

And how far have you got with the mapping ??

[slindborg]

good point, my CC dates from 2007 so probably pump should be replaced. More pump flow presumably means more current draw.

 

 

not nessecarally

If the pump is getting tired it might pull more current to maintain the flow (not that it has a controller but you get what I mean, I hope). A fresh pump with non worn bushings/bearings and intact impeller could use less current to push the same/more fluid round.

[fezzasus]

 

That would make sense though. High rpm = more air flow = more cooling of charge circuit.

 

Errrm. I'd expect higher rpm = wider throttle (in general) = more boost = more heat placed into the inlet charge by the supercharger.

 

Can we have inlet pressure (boost) graph overlaid onto the two we already have?  

 

 

I wouldn't, the volume water in the charge cooler circuit is massive and will absorb any increase in temp from boost, you certainly wouldn't see an increase immediately on throttle. On continuous throttle you would eventually see it rise, but in reality i would actually expect a drop as more air cools the water, then a rise back up to original temps where it stays off throttle.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Also have you got a phenolic spacer as you could be getting heat sink from engine

[fezzasus]

A phenolic spacer isn't a magic fix, it just delays heat sink. It will still happen.

 

Additionally, the heat of the inlet manifold shouldn't influence the heat of the air much, as the contact area of the manifold will be significantly lower than the contact area of the laminovas.

[Bargi]

Stuck together a few grahs with boost, etc.

 

This is a Harrop with std (80mm?) pulley and no spacer

If this was heat soak from the engine then every SC conversion would have seen this problem as it happening off boost.

Charge cooler pump is Bosch 0392023004 purchased here, it doesn't hit the back of the tank but def noticeable pushing it out.

 

Max boost was 2.24bar

Edited by Bargi, 20 June 2014 - 11:21 AM.

[slindborg]

A phenolic spacer isn't a magic fix, it just delays heat sink. It will still happen.

 

Additionally, the heat of the inlet manifold shouldn't influence the heat of the air much, as the contact area of the manifold will be significantly lower than the contact area of the laminovas.

 

this, in fcuking spades!!!

 

The air isnt in the manifold for long enough or in contact enough to be hindered in a massively quantifyable manner.

I did some tests with GT Wave (I think it was) about 8 years ago where the manifold temp was varied from -200DegC to +100Deg C and the air temps/output powers didnt vary enough to care about. Granted that was a simulation but it was pretty good.

 

In steady state like a cruise, temperatures will all start to level out and tend to the higher ranges than short bursts where the colling can recover etc.

[techieboy]

Only a better exhaust manifold and system will help that.

[Bargi]

And how far have you got with the mapping ??

 

Few fuel learn sessions, no ignition or power runs yet

[Bargi]

Only a better exhaust manifold and system will help that.

 

oi!

It's not as if I'm not trying, lend me yours, you never use it anyway!

 

You may benefit if the backbox turns out quieter than yours (not much of a challenge I know ) 

[Bargi]

 

A phenolic spacer isn't a magic fix, it just delays heat sink. It will still happen.

 

Additionally, the heat of the inlet manifold shouldn't influence the heat of the air much, as the contact area of the manifold will be significantly lower than the contact area of the laminovas.

 

this, in fcuking spades!!!

 

The air isnt in the manifold for long enough or in contact enough to be hindered in a massively quantifyable manner.

I did some tests with GT Wave (I think it was) about 8 years ago where the manifold temp was varied from -200DegC to +100Deg C and the air temps/output powers didnt vary enough to care about. Granted that was a simulation but it was pretty good.

 

In steady state like a cruise, temperatures will all start to level out and tend to the higher ranges than short bursts where the colling can recover etc.

 

 

I didn't bother with the spacer as one of guys from the continent posted he'd done runs with and without and it made little difference