1266 replies to this topic

[Doctor Ed]

i was possibly a little confused regarding the engine families.

not having had anything to do with these family of engines, or their parent companies whatsoever, ever, the engine codes and cross platform usage had me a bit lost there. not to mention the US doesnt even bother itself with engine codes, instead sticking with (best case) L61 type codes, or (worst case), "the cobalt/saturn sky ecotec"... ffs. then throw in saab. yeah, lost me for a while.

 

what i want: something interesting to keep my brain and hands occupied. its not necessarily about the fastest and simplest way to achieve a goal. i dont care if the thing doesnt run for 12 months *optimistic cough* its about having a project to plan, build, execute that requires my own engineering input. I like building stuff. its lego technic for middle aged men.

 

Ill build whatever gets me excited and keeps me interested. ive already got an M62 and a 2.2 manifold. theoretically i could just bolt that together and run it. yeah, nah...

 

as for looking bodge. I hate bodge.

 

[Exmantaa]

Well, at least you started with the right car, an Opel Speedster/VX220; THE perfect Lego tinker car for the middle aged men...

 

Me and bodges don't go well together too... but I have to say I am pretty good at it, haha.

That's why I build the SC's; clean, neat and they keep working pretty well. (Well, most of them do...) And I do not like the "elastic throttle feel" of a turbo on track.

 

But once you dive into turbo conversions (let alone twin charging), you will find you have to compromise (bodge..) a lot due to the awfull lack of space. That is if you like to keep your rear bootspace.

 

So;

- you can remodel/shorten the NA rear boot to gain space. (or maybe fit a turbo rear clam?)

- you compromise on turbo size and fit a smallish turbo (like DBilas) down there with non-optimal exhaust and intercooler pipe routing.

- Or... you redirect the gearshift/cables/mechanism out of the way. You change and move the engine thermostat housing from that side of the engine and design a bespoke turbo system/manifold that fits and flows well...

 

Something that looks like this:

 

Or go balls out and engineer it like this:

 

 

PS; did somebody already mention the Elise V10 conversion to him if he want to really challenge and occupy himself?   Or maybe that S1 with Ferrari V8 in the back??

[Doctor Ed]

Within about 10secs of buying the chassis, one of my mates started with a "H1 v8" chant. Nah, I want to get the twincharger to work. 20psi by 2000, holding 30 to 7500? should go ok

[Exmantaa]

[Nev]

 

He seems to have the revs rather high before he plonks the accelerator pedal. A more realistic test would be to stomp on the accelerator from idle.

[stu8v]

I'll leave this here,

 

[Winstar]

I did the calcs for twin charging a couple of years ago I can dig the spreadsheet out if you want, Iirc the best parts bin turbo match I found was the td06 20g* Although I was using sequential charging like the zzp conversation rather than compound. As you normally only go compound if you need more PR than a single stage can give because your flow range will be limited to that of the turbo compressor. Running down at a PR of 2 will give you more map width but nothing like if you run the sc then turbo. *I'm bias towards MHI as we had a technical partnership with them when I worked at Holset, small Holsets use MHI cores and Large MHI turbos Holset

[Doctor Ed]

Flow range doesn't tend to be a problem though. Most "small" turbo units these days can easily flow 40-45lb/min which isn't a bad limit if you had to have one. Still a bit inefficient at those flow rates, so a bit of mixing and matching compressor to turbine might be required. I think I've basically settled on a 3076 on a T3 hot side. I suspect a 1.06 AR is the way to go. Not cheap little units original 3076 though! Meanwhile, the fun with TÜV has started regarding the widebody wheel arches... basically, according to mr TÜV, I need a formal material assessment/certification of the fiberglass. Strength, deflection, impact absorption, shatter characteristics, burn/flame speed. Now after much headfuckery I've found a ISO certified fiberglass product manufacturer who have managed to produce a "standard" fiberglass technique, which if followed will produce a panel that meets the TÜV criteria, and has the needed certificates/stamps. I just need to convince the guys with the mold to use the necessary products, and follow the required layering technique, and then give me a letter to say the parts were made according to process XYZ and fulfil the criteria of the given TÜV certificate. Like I said, headfuck, but worthwhile if this works. Note to self: R&G Faserverbundwerkstoffe GmbH

[Mangham54]

 

 

He seems to have the revs rather high before he plonks the accelerator pedal. A more realistic test would be to stomp on the accelerator from idle.

 

 

Definitely... Listening to the engine note I would estimate that he is at between 2000 and 2500 rpm before he boots it. Even my 8yo Skoda has the best part of fcuk all turbo lag at 2k revs.

[Jocke_D]

Don't know if this helps anything or just takes up space but there are a couple of guys doing the SC/Turbo thing here in Sweden. Not in a VX but on the same block, in Saab's.

 

Hope this video works, it's a link to one of the guys Facebook 

https://www.facebook...53783910012177/

They have just got it to start. They're using M62 on the normal intake.

If I understood him correctly (wasn't that eager to answer questions) he has plumbed the turbo to the (modified) bypass valve of the inlet. They are planning on using the SC at low revs/pressure and let the turbo kick in at an apropriate time.

 

There also is another one that has his cars up on a dyno but don't know more about that one.

[haggi961]

So there is a twin charge kit you can buy off the shelf?

[Jocke_D]

So there is a twin charge kit you can buy off the shelf?

 

Well, not exactly.

They are using the "normal" M62 and the bolt on intake the we use on our Speedster's/VX's. But the intake is modified so that they let the turbo pressure enter through the bypass that is already on the intake.

 

I only got a couple of really fast and short answers out of the guy on facebook so I can't be at all sure that we understood each other

[haggi961]

No problem and not worth the hassle by the sounds of it. I was hoping for a bolt on kit 😂

[Doctor Ed]

I don't think zzp's got anywhere To be honest, im not convinced of the sequential sc/turbo idea myself. As mentioned earlier, one of the benefits of compounding is the higher intake/exhaust pressure ratio, better combustion chamber emptying, and lower combustion temps. A more sympathetic combustion for the PR you're pushing. Lots of ways to kill a cat though Will be watching that one with interest Edit - lol @ kit. I'd put compound charging up there with one of the silliest and finicky ways to build an engine.

Edited by ed.oates, 08 January 2016 - 01:06 PM.

[Doctor Ed]

Interesting comparison to nev's build (if he's reading)... TÜV introduced another hurdle regarding my track increase/widebody plans, but I think I worked it out. If you weren't aware, Germany has a 2% track rule, which basically means you're free to modify the track ~2% without needing to have it checked. More than 2% and you're into a zone where the mods need certification, but up to a certain offset its relatively simple. From that offset, it's then in the hands of an engineer to say the chassis has the capability to tolerate the increased suspension loads. Those numbers for folks interested... Up to ET +21 is free to modify A max of ET +6 front and -4 back is within simple certifiable tolerance Up to -25 is preapproved, but you need to purchase the engineers chassis certification, simply adding to the cost I'm presently looking at ET +0 front and ET +2 rear, so just outside of the 'simple' zone and into the 'pay to play' zone. So far so good though, it at least all seems doable.

[Exmantaa]

I don't think zzp's got anywhere To be honest, im not convinced of the sequential sc/turbo idea myself. As mentioned earlier, one of the benefits of compounding is the higher intake/exhaust pressure ratio, better combustion chamber emptying, and lower combustion temps. A more sympathetic combustion for the PR you're pushing. Lots of ways to kill a cat though Will be watching that one with interest Edit - lol @ kit. I'd put compound charging up there with one of the silliest and finicky ways to build an engine.

ZZP stopped with the twin charge, because they could make more & easier power with just a single turbo. (890whp or so...) They said mapping with the 2 boost controllers was tricky. NOW their focus is also more on the later, direct injection engines. (single / twin-scroll turbo's)

[OneYet]

This man in Sweden did put a charger and a turbo in an old Escort. 

[Doctor Ed]

oh look, a flying brick.

nothing new in that, just wanted to get a baseline idea of how bad the back of these things are

 

edit... whats with posting images here? no capacity to upload, and then arent allowed to link to various image formats? 

no wonder the images are dead in 95% of posts that come up in search results on this site. so much lost info.

 

shame, i guess this thread is going to a bit sparse of multimedia

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[ChrisS1]

Upload to photobucket(or similar) then paste the link.

[smiley]

Search for "raised" bootlid" and "coupe" Ed.

Edited by smiley, 14 January 2016 - 10:53 AM.