1815 replies to this topic

[phil.d]

I have to say, I'm loving this topic, mainly due to the only thing we know to be true and that's that no one knows what will happen if we leave, it could work out great, I just don't think it's worth taking the risk, the country is only just recovering from the downturn, also no one has been able to actually say how we'll be better off if we leave, interest rates can't really go lower, house prices are strong, the job market for those who can be bothered to work is reasonable, yes we'll save some money but let's be honest, the government has plenty of that they've just got to stop wasting it . HS2 springs to mind, spending billions just so we can get to Birmingham 20 min quicker, giving India millions in aid when they have a space program and such like , this country has bigger issues , personally I think we should all really be talking about the ever increasing divide between rich and poor, the multi million/ billion Aires/company's that contribute nothing to society , these are the real issues , well done though HH for getting it going , I really don't know which way it will all go, how exciting 😀

[PaulCP]

The Tories continually invest in the South East ...

Thing is, many get brainwashed into this thinking!

[LY_Scott]

brainwashed..... how very droll Show me the equal level of investment elsewhere? Show me what happened to the northern power house? I'll await the crossrail investment for other cities shall we? I mean who doesn't need a half billion quid train station like Blackfriars?

[LY_Scott]

80 billion quid is the projected cost of knocking 8 miniutes off a journey to Birmingham. The EU isn't making anyone do this. The EU however does invest in rural communities. The western isles have benefited hugely from the EU.

[techieboy]

I'll await the crossrail investment for other cities shall we? I mean who doesn't need a half billion quid train station like Blackfriars?

Don't want to p*ss on your fire but Blackfriars isn't on Crossrail. And before it's recent rebuild, it was a proper sh*t hole and bottleneck (like London Bridge still currently is) on through London train services.

[Harry Hornet]

 

  me. .In...lose my English identity eventually, the south east gets even more crowded  

What exactly do you mean by 'English identity'? I can only assume you mean 'old white man'. The fact is that this island with its so called moat has been invaded, raped and pillaged more time than any other in the history of the world. Feck knows what everyone finds so alluring about the place, it rains all the time and it's currently winter weather in June on the NE coast. Get a DNA map done. You will find that you're the gang banged bastard son of dozens of countries, probably around 30% of which will be 'English'. It's exactly this sort of ill informed jingoistic bullshit that the bunch of freaks that are behind the brexit campaign are counting on. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

...assumption is wrong, my good friend.... I also am an immigrant 3 generations back....  (dont ask other wise Ill have to send the Bhoys round)

 

.my English identity is that I am English not European... I do not wish to be dictated to by politicians in Brussels (or Salzburg depending if the week has an R in it)..much rather have our own politicians dictate to me (for what is fecking worth)..

 

..yes I agree 100% ... what does makes this island so appealing...why do so many people want to come here...  maybe becuause its Englands green and pleasant land..(I hear a song coming on!

 

ill informed...jingoistic.....bullshit.......I am afraid to say its happening on both sides of the argument.....

 

..at the end of the day no one can really predict the future...otherwise we would all buy this weeks winning lottery ticket  ..  

[Harry Hornet]

The EU however does invest in rural communities.

 

Yes and just how much goes in the back pocket of those that receive the grants...

 

The EU have pumped millions into the the rural Greece...great you say....no I say....for every 1e used, another 3e goes to the developer, builder, planner, mayor, etc etc in the food chain..

 

classic example ..400k e provided to build  5 houses, the frames were completed over 4 years for just 80k e.  the other 320k e has disappeared. The houses will never be completed....wtf...

 

..and its happened all over, roads built which go no where. Spain airports built, with no planes ever landing..

 

.....its all your money and mine.....

 

imo.....each and every country should fend for itself using its own cash...when was the last time you went to the bank got a loan and they said never mind dont repay us...  

[Kieran McC]

Lets get out and stand on our two feet ,Just my opinion

[JG]

In

[PaulCP]

brainwashed..... how very droll ?

But for many so very, very true!

[WrightStuff]

 

  me. .In...lose my English identity eventually, the south east gets even more crowded  

What exactly do you mean by 'English identity'? I can only assume you mean 'old white man'. The fact is that this island with its so called moat has been invaded, raped and pillaged more time than any other in the history of the world. Feck knows what everyone finds so alluring about the place, it rains all the time and it's currently winter weather in June on the NE coast. Get a DNA map done. You will find that you're the gang banged bastard son of dozens of countries, probably around 30% of which will be 'English'. It's exactly this sort of ill informed jingoistic bullshit that the bunch of freaks that are behind the brexit campaign are counting on. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

I think you'll find there are a -hell- of a lot of people living in the UK that, tolerant though they are, want to preserve our culture, values and way of life.

Immigration is not a problem, if it is drip fed and immigrants are allowed to integrate slowly.

The problem is when immigrants are allowed in en masse (like with an open EU border!) and have no intention of integrating so you end up with segregated areas and a local population wondering WTF is going on when their neighbourhood becomes unrecognisable.

[LY_Scott]

brainwashed..... how very droll ?

But for many so very, very true!

Ad Hominem

[PaulCP]

brainwashed..... how very droll ?

But for many so very, very true!

Ad Hominem

The meaning of which I am very much aware! I'll leave it at that since I don't believe in forum exchanges becoming personal

[LY_Scott]

Or exchanging facts to back your points it would seem...

[Harry Hornet]

 

 

 

brainwashed..... how very droll ?

But for many so very, very true!

Ad Hominem

The meaning of which I am very much aware! I'll leave it at that since I don't believe in forum exchanges becoming personal

 

 

 

Or exchanging facts to back your points it would seem...

 

 

Woooaaa bhoys.........just vote fecking out and leave it be..

 

...seems Mr Cameron is having a bit of a hard time, being asked for some facts...as every good politician ...there are very few to be shared.....me included Stuart...

[slindborg]

I'll await the crossrail investment for other cities shall we? I mean who doesn't need a half billion quid train station like Blackfriars?

Don't want to p*ss on your fire but Blackfriars isn't on Crossrail. And before it's recent rebuild, it was a proper sh*t hole and bottleneck (like London Bridge still currently is) on through London train services.

Oi, leave my gravy train (yay a pun) alone!!!!

[techieboy]

You're working on the Bridge? Oh, wait till I tell Jo that. The clusterfuck that is now Tooley Street has made getting to or from her office in Hays Galleria a 'mare. I just thank fcuk I work from home now and not on Bermondsey Street.

[slindborg]

You're working on the Bridge? Oh, wait till I tell Jo that. The clusterfuck that is now Tooley Street has made getting to or from her office in Hays Galleria a 'mare. I just thank fcuk I work from home now and not on Bermondsey Street.

Not directly on the bridge, traffic management for all of thameslink

[Madmitch]

Why do these people slog all the way across France without stopping until they get to the UK?  It's because the French won't have them, if they haven't been employed, and contributed, then they have no ID = no healthcare, no benefits, no housing, no nothing, so they keep going to the UK where successive governments have just spread it all out for the asking with no need to have contributed.  It's not the fault of the EU but the UK exercising it's free will to be generous.  Leaving won't stop immigrants unless the UK government changes it's policies to immigrants.

[jonnyboy]

Its interesting to see the development of the EU in out referendum. 

 

The biggest point of interest as I see it is the lack of engagement amongst the public. Given its make or break for us and at least our kids I would have expected a lot more engagement but its not really featuring very much on social media and in conversations I'm having. 

 

A big part of this I believe is because the in/out political arena is basically a political game. If you look at it in a none partisan pragmatic way we have the leaders of all the main political parties, all the banks, all the business leaders and even trade unions screaming at us to remain and you basically have the Brexit camp based around Boris Johnson taking a risk to try and get his hands on the comfy eats in Parliament by bandwagon jumping. That and the swivel eyed UKIP and Conservatives are all that the Brexit camp really is. I believe and really hope that the  EU referendum is going the way of the Scottish one. IE the exit campaigners have the advantage of the sexier argument but ultimately it defies all logic and common sense to actually push a ballot paper through that slot that is potentially contributing towards another 10 years of utter chaos and instability for us at a time when we are just on the cusp of a proper recovery from the banking fiasco thats 10 YEARS next year from its beginnings. 

 

As someone that operates a business with a foot in the EU I think I have a bit of a keener nose for the potential pitfalls than most. The thought of import tariffs coming in I cant tell you how much damage it will do to the UK economy. At the moment an EU sale is the same as a sale to the UK for a business but if we are dealing with America for example its much harder and thats with just 5% duty to contend with depending on the state. To multiply those issues across individual deals with each EU country the amount of red tape and lost business we are facing is going to be utterly devastating to this country. The EU is a club and if we are out of the club there is no incentive for the EU to let our imports in if they have the advatage of protecting their own imports. You cannot ever ever negotiate better trade deals with the EU than 0% and free movement of goods.

 

Immigration is an issue of course but leaving the EU will do nothing to stop this. People flock to the UK because its fcuking awesome not because we are in the EU. At the moment 60% of immigration already comes from our "dream" system of having points based immigration. Personally I dont see Polish or other European people coming here as "immigration" thats just the EU working as it should to allow loads of our old folk to retire to France and we get upwardly mobile young people to come here and oil the cogs of our economy. 

 

Overall I understand the well meaning if slightly skewed patrotist view on keeping all those foreign types out but its just not the way of the modern world. We are potentially opening the door to the dark ages. The future lies firmly with EU membership and yes its far from perfect but we can only shape it in the future by remaining. A vote to leave is slipping the noose around the neck of your own children. It will be completely devastating in the short term. It will be completely devastating in the medium and long term. There is no good that could ever come of a vote to leave a trading bloc that we export 60% of EVERYTHING to.