54 replies to this topic

[PaulCP]

Planning officers rarely enforce any breach of conditions attached to an approval.

Our local council pass everything that is put in front of them and never enforce anything. I attended a planning committee meeting yesterday to witness an application close to us which is essentially for an industrial building in a rural location. The procedures were pathetic from a planning officers report which was misleading in that it repeated the applicants claims without testing them, omitted many points on the objections and there was no debate from the committee. They just accepted everything in front of them at face value despite many objectors writing to them individually pointing out the shortcomings in the officers report.

They were also hearing a case where a builder has built an extension to his own house measuring 9m x 8m and 5m high at the apex and within 1m of his neighbours boundary. He claimed that he did not know he needed planning consent to do it so was now submitting an application retrospectively. Guess what, it was unanimously approved!

Apologies for the long post but the above gives you an idea on how they operate.

Before the meeting started the chairman went around the table asking every member of the committee individually if they had any interests to declare in any application to be discussed on the day. This will have been done in the case of the barn you are contesting. If you can get the minutes of the meeting where the guy stated “no interests” then that is probably your best case. You could press for a judicial review of the process followed but of course there will be a cost associated with it.

[PaulCP]

Before the meeting started the chairman went around the table asking every member of the committee individually if they had any interests to declare in any application to be discussed on the day. This will have been done in the case of the barn you are contesting. If you can get the minutes of the meeting where the guy stated “no interests” then that is probably your best case. You could press for a judicial review of the process followed but of course there will be a cost associated with it.

I should have added this is if the application was decided by committee rather than an individual planning officer.

The application I mentioned was approved by a planner no officer back in April 2017. We managed to get the decision overturned when, as a group of 15 we had a Barrister write to the planning dept informing them that they hadn’t followed correct procedures and their own protocol and we would be asking for a judicial review. The review wasn’t necessary since they immediately withdrew the consent and told the applicant to apply again. In the end, whilst the application has now got committee approval, the scheme has changed removing many of the contentious issues

[Jetpilot]

Wow, its a bit different down my way, i am doing a bungalow conversion for a client, as soon as the first rafters went up the neighbour was straight on the phone to the council saying it was too high, how she knew without measuring it i have no idea but regardless, the planning enforcement officer was there the next morning with a tape measure, it was an inch or two over which she accepted, if it was 500mm or more it would have had to been changed or revised plans submitted.

 

I know it sounds off track, but if you are getting no where with the council, try your local mp, also any neighbours you can rally aboard and do what PaulCP suggests?

 

However underhand this all might be, unless you have a complaint that directly impacts your house, i.e loss of light etc, you are not entitled to a view, so unlikely any objection will stand up.

[Tommo]

tbf Jetpilot i have built a scheme in Poole (Well Sandbanks, so almost Poole) and BoP Council are one of the worst to deal with that i have ever come across. Massively pernickety and literally don't let ANYTHING go. Very much the exception rather than the rule.

 

In short FLD you're not likely to get much joy with the planning department.  There seems to be no issue with the construction of the barn in this location from a planning point of view, so any issues that you throw up in regard to its location or materiality will just be dealt with via a Section 73 Minor amendment.  Once that's passed it will negate any material breach of the planning permission. £150 for the applicant and a nice rubber stamp at the end with the new location/materiality etc.  All agreed and above board - sitting on the opposite side of the fence, thats what i'd do.

 

Cant you put the ground work in for a claim against the seller yourself and just have the solicitors step in for any face to face or heavy handed work?

 

Bloody shame that there were no Great Crested Newts in the field......

Edited by Tommo, 24 July 2018 - 12:45 PM.

[C8RKH]

http://www.backwater...s.com/newts/cre

[FLD]

Bit of a thread resurrection.....
The neighbour has elected to move the barn to where she got permission for rather than to apply for a change of location. Bit of a shocker.

In the mean time I've been picking at the original planning application. It turns out the original planning application doesn't meet the required regulations
1) The address for the actual development is wrong! She's used her home address which whilst close is up the road from where it's actually built
2) The original owners of my house weren't consulted / informed when the planners claim they were.

If I want this refered to the secretary of state given that the proper process wasn't followed do I need to use a solicitor (and incur cost) or can I do this directly by writing to the council saying I know how naughty they are?

Anyone with any experience?

[CocoPops]

Oh that sounds good news.

The address thing is very interesting.... a blind person for example would assume the barn was built where the address says, not on a drawing...

Deffo sounds like pursuing this!! Keep going!!

[Zoobeef]

A good thing to possibly do is have a plan on what compromise you would be happy with rather than just a full removal.

I.E can they dig down and therefore reduce the height of the barn or make it look different.

[FLD]

Good idea.

[ICD]

Bit of a thread resurrection.....
The neighbour has elected to move the barn to where she got permission for rather than to apply for a change of location. Bit of a shocker.

In the mean time I've been picking at the original planning application. It turns out the original planning application doesn't meet the required regulations
1) The address for the actual development is wrong! She's used her home address which whilst close is up the road from where it's actually built
2) The original owners of my house weren't consulted / informed when the planners claim they were.

If I want this refered to the secretary of state given that the proper process wasn't followed do I need to use a solicitor (and incur cost) or can I do this directly by writing to the council saying I know how naughty they are?

Anyone with any experience?

 

..bad news from me, all I can say I fought a similar fight with a next door neighbour. It depends just how good your council is, we lost with an extra 60% being built on a barn. Over a period of 4 years of complaints all the council said was they didnt have the resource to nor have the enthusiasm against a build when all that would be needed was an application for a restrospective build.

 

Attempt for a compromise....or engage with the Local Government Omsbudman (LGO) now  and complain against the council and its failings. This costs nothing but your time. This will take the best part of 6 - 9 months as they are very busy as all councils are slowly killed off by austerity and the amount of work they have to (in) effectively manage.

 

Good luck, but do not p*ss into the wind, brown envelopes under the door work much better

[FLD]

Bit of a thread resurrection.....
The neighbour has elected to move the barn to where she got permission for rather than to apply for a change of location. Bit of a shocker.

In the mean time I've been picking at the original planning application. It turns out the original planning application doesn't meet the required regulations
1) The address for the actual development is wrong! She's used her home address which whilst close is up the road from where it's actually built
2) The original owners of my house weren't consulted / informed when the planners claim they were.

If I want this refered to the secretary of state given that the proper process wasn't followed do I need to use a solicitor (and incur cost) or can I do this directly by writing to the council saying I know how naughty they are?

Anyone with any experience?

 
..bad news from me, all I can say I fought a similar fight with a next door neighbour. It depends just how good your council is, we lost with an extra 60% being built on a barn. Over a period of 4 years of complaints all the council said was they didnt have the resource to nor have the enthusiasm against a build when all that would be needed was an application for a restrospective build.
 
Attempt for a compromise....or engage with the Local Government Omsbudman (LGO) now  and complain against the council and its failings. This costs nothing but your time. This will take the best part of 6 - 9 months as they are very busy as all councils are slowly killed off by austerity and the amount of work they have to (in) effectively manage.
 
Good luck, but do not p*ss into the wind, brown envelopes under the door work much better

This kind or reply is exactly the sort of info I need. A touch of pragmatism is always good. Knowing if to launch into judicial review territory or ombudsman complaint is good for setting stress levels and expectations.

[PaulCP]

Keep in mind that if you go down the judicial review route etc and are successful there is still nothing stopping the applicant from reapplying and the planners from making sure that all procedures are followed to ensure that they don’t fall into the same trap again, assuming of course that it can be proven that procedures were not followed.

The law is on the side of the applicants and planners and not the objectors😟

[FLD]

Yeah, I was aware of this risk.

WRT evidence I have a letter from the council admitting the address is wrong. I have the initial enquiries form (signed) from my move stating that the vendor had no notifications for any planning and I have a letter from the council saying they cant evidence anything being sent out.

[ICD]

Yeah, I was aware of this risk.

WRT evidence I have a letter from the council admitting the address is wrong. I have the initial enquiries form (signed) from my move stating that the vendor had no notifications for any planning and I have a letter from the council saying they cant evidence anything being sent out.

 

Update for you. Today after over 4 years of complaining to council and over 6 months with the LGO I have at last have the LGO doing an investigation on the councils process.

The LGO have stated. The best outcome is a publicy published letter stating the council were at fault with their process, but the worse case is that the LGO cannot make the council enforce the neighbour to alter the plans apart from make good of what is bad.

 

It will cost the council to bring a demolition order against the build, if the barn owners rufused to do anything when they have some paperwork to show it is ok,  in this day and age no council will do that. So you would end up having to sue the council. It stinks.

 

IMO the best case is to get what ever compromise you can, in nearly 5 years I can tell you it drains away your will to live and the confidence with the council will be zero. What ever you decide best of luck.
 

[FLD]

Given it's just moved 12m back I think that's the best compromise I can expect. I might pop in a complaint about the council and try to void the original planning but I won't expect anything from this other than letting them know that I know they are crap.