Jump to content


Photo

I Need To Sort My Handling Out After Going In A Mk1 Rs1600


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#1 swast4

swast4

    Super Member

  • 358 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Heswall, UK
  • Interests:Trackdays

Posted 29 June 2019 - 10:39 AM

I've just come back from Cadwell Park on Thursday and had a great day, it s an amazing circuit, which I'd love to do more but it's just so far for me. Its also pretty hard on the car but loads of fun.

I ended up having a passenger ride in a mk1 RS1600 Escort, as I had a, good battle with the guy and his dad told me he had won his championship for the last 5 years. I was absolutely amazed how well it handled, it was so solid and stable and the speeds that he could go into corners with no understeer was unbelievable, he was also a very talented driver who new his car very well. I have really under estimated how much extra speed a properly set up car will give you....... Wow.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk



#2 vocky

vocky

    vx220 itb

  • 11,903 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Earth

Posted 29 June 2019 - 10:43 AM

I have fond memories of my old RS escorts. Standard they were not that great, but with a set of billies, a tuned engine with twin webers and a Janspeed exhaust made them great fun to drive rallly



#3 swast4

swast4

    Super Member

  • 358 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Heswall, UK
  • Interests:Trackdays

Posted 29 June 2019 - 10:47 AM

This was built at the factory as a rally car and had twin 48s. It was insane, I can't understand how a 45 year old car can drive so well.....
He said it was valued at 60k but its probably more as they are going up all the time.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk



#4 C8RKH

C8RKH

    Super Member

  • 491 posts
  • Location:UK

Posted 29 June 2019 - 12:01 PM

I've just come back from Cadwell Park on Thursday and had a great day, it s an amazing circuit, which I'd love to do more but it's just so far for me.
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

Pah, it's not that far from d' Wirral - try living up here in Sotland then driving south for Croft, Blyton Park, Oulton Park, Severn Sisters, Silverstone, Donnington and even fooking Bedford for the National!

 

You southerners are getting too bloody soft lol.....  :rolleyes:



#5 hairy

hairy

    Moonlander

  • 5,399 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bristol
  • Interests:cars, beer, nature

Posted 29 June 2019 - 01:17 PM

 

I've just come back from Cadwell Park on Thursday and had a great day, it s an amazing circuit, which I'd love to do more but it's just so far for me.
Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

Pah, it's not that far from d' Wirral - try living up here in Sotland then driving south for Croft, Blyton Park, Oulton Park, Severn Sisters, Silverstone, Donnington and even fooking Bedford for the National!

 

You southerners are getting too bloody soft lol.....  :rolleyes:

 

:lol:


Edited by hairy, 29 June 2019 - 01:17 PM.


#6 swast4

swast4

    Super Member

  • 358 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Heswall, UK
  • Interests:Trackdays

Posted 29 June 2019 - 01:37 PM

Very true, at least I'm closer than you are, but you have the luxury of great quiet non speed camere'd roads.

It also doesnt help when your removable tow bar comes off on the motorway and turns a 3 1/2 journey into 5 3/4, but hey I'm alive

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk



#7 swast4

swast4

    Super Member

  • 358 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Heswall, UK
  • Interests:Trackdays

Posted 16 August 2019 - 11:16 AM

I have removed my shocks 2 days ago and they are now in The Netherlands getting a full refresh and uprated springs.

 

I'm going for 750lb/800lb rears 625lb/675lb fronts. As recommended by MattBently as it is 99% track use.

 

There was some markings on the front springs but they are difficult to make out. They are 160-50 46mm front with additional markings are 35/10 the rears are 220-65 di 46mm.

 

I take it the 160 and 220 is the lb rate (which seems very low), please can you tell me what is the 50 & 65 figures ? and also what is the 35/10 ?

 

Adam



#8 Nev

Nev

    Nipper's Minion

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,489 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bristol
  • Interests:Rock climbing, skiing, kayaking, surfing, mountaineering, budgies, chess, practical mechanics.

Posted 16 August 2019 - 02:09 PM

Just upping your springs in isolation won't improve things necessarily, the entire range of settings need to work together.

 

What front ARB do you have? If it's an increased torque transfer one, then try this free test: undo the 2 drop links to it and zip-tie the bar in situe so it doen't wave about. then go for a test drive. I think you'll notice an improvement on initial turn in bite and reduced understeer.


Edited by Nev, 16 August 2019 - 02:17 PM.


#9 swast4

swast4

    Super Member

  • 358 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Heswall, UK
  • Interests:Trackdays

Posted 16 August 2019 - 03:06 PM

I've got a 1 " ARB

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk



#10 Nev

Nev

    Nipper's Minion

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,489 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bristol
  • Interests:Rock climbing, skiing, kayaking, surfing, mountaineering, budgies, chess, practical mechanics.

Posted 16 August 2019 - 04:07 PM

I've got a 1 " ARB

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

Try that experiment I wrote, it only take 30 mins and you'll be amazed.



#11 Exmantaa

Exmantaa

    Scary Internerd

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,916 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 August 2019 - 04:18 PM

I have removed my shocks 2 days ago and they are now in The Netherlands getting a full refresh and uprated springs.

 

I'm going for 750lb/800lb rears 625lb/675lb fronts. As recommended by MattBently as it is 99% track use.

 

There was some markings on the front springs but they are difficult to make out. They are 160-50 46mm front with additional markings are 35/10 the rears are 220-65 di 46mm.

 

I take it the 160 and 220 is the lb rate (which seems very low), please can you tell me what is the 50 & 65 figures ? and also what is the 35/10 ?

 

Adam

 

Are you on Ohlins shocks??
 

(Ohlins has metric markings in N/mm I think; so F= 50 N/mm and R=65N/mm. A Lotus cup has 55N/mm and 73N/mm)


Edited by Exmantaa, 16 August 2019 - 04:27 PM.


#12 swast4

swast4

    Super Member

  • 358 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Heswall, UK
  • Interests:Trackdays

Posted 16 August 2019 - 07:02 PM

They are Intrax.

If I remove my drop links, thus removing my ARB, are you saying my car will handle better?

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk



#13 Dan r

Dan r

    Super Duper Member

  • 617 posts
  • Location:Brighton

Posted 16 August 2019 - 07:45 PM

I wondered if they were intrax when you said they were in the Netherlands, they came from my last vx originally, think they're the only set specifically for the vx. The previous owner to me worked for them and put them together.
I remember having difficulty reading the numbers on the springs as well.


Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk



#14 swast4

swast4

    Super Member

  • 358 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Heswall, UK
  • Interests:Trackdays

Posted 16 August 2019 - 08:33 PM

What a small world, so would you know how old they are then?

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk



#15 Dan r

Dan r

    Super Duper Member

  • 617 posts
  • Location:Brighton

Posted 17 August 2019 - 05:34 AM

Getting on for 10 years old

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk



#16 chris_uk

chris_uk

    I fancy chill

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Leeds UK

Posted 17 August 2019 - 09:20 AM

If I remove my drop links, thus removing my ARB, are you saying my car will handle better?
 

it might feel that way initially, but ideally you want to eliminate the roll, not increase it. 

what setting do you have the 1" arb on now? do you know if the shocks need to be re-valved to cope with the extra lbs springs? do you know what overall length the new springs are? what is your ride height on the car?

 

can you remember what your geo settings are ? toe, caster, camber etc.

 

 

if i can be honest, a lot of the excellent handling from t he escort will be a lot to do with who was driving it, 



#17 swast4

swast4

    Super Member

  • 358 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Heswall, UK
  • Interests:Trackdays

Posted 17 August 2019 - 01:27 PM

Absolutely your right he was a brilliant driver, using the weight of the car to give him the grip required but it was also pretty neutral in regards to understeer etc.

My geo is attached, i have my ARB set on max stiff. My car is booked in again on 2nd sep when my shocks are back on.

My ride height is when I took shocks off was

NSF 612mm
NSR 631
OSR 631
OSF 615

This was floor to top of arch with my wets(not propper but Togo r1r) on 205/45/16
235/40/17

When I got car geo'd I had to raise the rear by about 10mm as tyres where rubbing on arch as it was too soft and my dry tyres are (255).

I have asked for them to supply the springs so I presume they will valve to suit.
I don't know the length of the springs.


Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk



#18 Exmantaa

Exmantaa

    Scary Internerd

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,916 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 August 2019 - 01:46 PM

What sort of problem do you have on track that makes the VX feel less than the Escort?

 

 

 

(We could use a sub forum here that is dedicated to handling issues...)



#19 swast4

swast4

    Super Member

  • 358 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Heswall, UK
  • Interests:Trackdays

Posted 17 August 2019 - 08:08 PM

It was the speed he was entering the corners was about faster than I could enter and he had so much bite on tien in where I'd have loads of understeer

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk



#20 chris_uk

chris_uk

    I fancy chill

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,860 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Leeds UK

Posted 18 August 2019 - 11:38 AM

do you by any chance have a video of your car on track? 

 

from what you describe it could be a number of things which are causing your handling characteristics. 

 

one example is track knowledge, how well do you know the track your on? and i don't mean, which corner comes after the other, i mean really know the track, like is the corner off/on camber, does it have any bumps or dips going into the corner? 

 

there are so many variables when it comes to track driving its actually quite hard to pinpoint.. 

 

your geo wasnt attached or if it is i cant see it.

 

you have wider than normal tyres and with a decent geo setup, you shouldn't have many problems, even on the hardest ARB setting. 

 

i suggest you explain to Matt, or whoever does the geo, the characteristics your experiencing and they should be able to dial the car in .. 

 

what you have to be aware off, is that grip is not the same as balance, its more important to have a car which is well balanced, rather than have ultimate grip.. both would be nice of cause.. for example, loads of camber, works well in the corners but is a little more unstable through acceleration / braking especially under bump and squat as these increase the value again reducing the contact patch.. Having excellent balance gives you the confidence to push harder and harder and dance the car on the edge.. or  you could just be over driving the car. 

 

 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users