95 replies to this topic

[Fordy]

Afternoon all,

I’m having an issue with knock retard on my supercharged Z22 engine. I seem to get KR with throttle change. If I mash the throttle at low rpm I get KR just under 8! The less I mash the throttle the less KR I get.

The calibration is as per what has been issued by Peter but I was thinking that it could possibly be false knock. I tried pulling the ignition and it didn’t help. I was also thinking that it may be the transient fuel settings.

Can someone kindly send me their calibration file so I can compare to mine?

Also, if anyone has had a similar issue and managed to cure it then any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks,

Shaun

[chris_uk]

hi mate, 

if you can get your car to me i can have a look for you. im just in Leeds. 

[Fordy]

hi mate,

if you can get your car to me i can have a look for you. im just in Leeds.

Hi mate,

Nice one for that. Drop me a message with your address and let me know when is best for you.

[Johnboyhgt]

what stage are you ? 

[Fordy]

what stage are you ? 

 

Engine type and displacement: Saab B207 engine re-bored to +0.5mm with Z22SE crankshaft, Eagle forged rods and 86.5mm Wiseco Pistons 8.9:1 CR.

- Engine compression ratio: 8.9:1 CR (with a 0.5mm rebore and head skim)

- Desired rev limiter rpm: 7000rpm

- Super charger or turbo type: Eaton M62

- Super charger pulley size or expected (turbo) boost: 2.8"

- Throttle body type: 58mm standard Z22SE throttle body

- Air filter/inlet setup: Open cone cotton filter

- Charge cooling setup: Dual pass with front mount charge cooler

- EGR valve connected: No

- Injector type (part number): Injector 470cc/min (Bosch 0 280 156 280)

- Spark plugs: Denso Iridium Power IK22 / 5310

- Exhaust setup: Tullet 3" tubular manifold, decat and 3" exhaust system with straight through center and rear silencers

- Cam shafts: standard Z22SE

- Fuel pump: Walbro GSS342 High Pressure Fuel Pump

- Fuel pressure: Standard pressure regulator

- Fuel pressure regulator connected to boost: Yes

- Manifold Air Pressure sensor (part number): Bosch 0 281 002 437

- Use Temperature sensor in TMAP for measuring intake air temperature: Yes

- Other important information like cylinder head ported: Cylinder head skim, cylinder rebore +0.5mm, Lightweight Flywheel, Crank Balancing, balance shaft delete, 99 RON fuel, ported inlet to supercharger, lightly ported outlet plate of supercharger.

[Johnboyhgt]

 

what stage are you ? 

 

Engine type and displacement: Saab B207 engine re-bored to +0.5mm with Z22SE crankshaft, Eagle forged rods and 86.5mm Wiseco Pistons 8.9:1 CR.

- Engine compression ratio: 8.9:1 CR (with a 0.5mm rebore and head skim)

- Desired rev limiter rpm: 7000rpm

- Super charger or turbo type: Eaton M62

- Super charger pulley size or expected (turbo) boost: 2.8"

- Throttle body type: 58mm standard Z22SE throttle body

- Air filter/inlet setup: Open cone cotton filter

- Charge cooling setup: Dual pass with front mount charge cooler

- EGR valve connected: No

- Injector type (part number): Injector 470cc/min (Bosch 0 280 156 280)

- Spark plugs: Denso Iridium Power IK22 / 5310

- Exhaust setup: Tullet 3" tubular manifold, decat and 3" exhaust system with straight through center and rear silencers

- Cam shafts: standard Z22SE

- Fuel pump: Walbro GSS342 High Pressure Fuel Pump

- Fuel pressure: Standard pressure regulator

- Fuel pressure regulator connected to boost: Yes

- Manifold Air Pressure sensor (part number): Bosch 0 281 002 437

- Use Temperature sensor in TMAP for measuring intake air temperature: Yes

- Other important information like cylinder head ported: Cylinder head skim, cylinder rebore +0.5mm, Lightweight Flywheel, Crank Balancing, balance shaft delete, 99 RON fuel, ported inlet to supercharger, lightly ported outlet plate of supercharger.

 

 

Couple of things on that set up, injectors will be close to max out, create a log and warm the car up and do a couple of WOT runs to the red line.

Then take a look at the injector duty cycle.

 

Also the pulley you are running on that SC will induce a lot of heat. again the log will show that.

 

What is your desired power ? 

[Johnboyhgt]

Also are these correct ? 

 

 Throttle body type: 58mm standard Z22SE throttle body

 Cam shafts: standard Z22SE

 

Id be surprised if you see over 270Bhp with these.

[Fordy]

 

 

what stage are you ? 

 

Engine type and displacement: Saab B207 engine re-bored to +0.5mm with Z22SE crankshaft, Eagle forged rods and 86.5mm Wiseco Pistons 8.9:1 CR.

- Engine compression ratio: 8.9:1 CR (with a 0.5mm rebore and head skim)

- Desired rev limiter rpm: 7000rpm

- Super charger or turbo type: Eaton M62

- Super charger pulley size or expected (turbo) boost: 2.8"

- Throttle body type: 58mm standard Z22SE throttle body

- Air filter/inlet setup: Open cone cotton filter

- Charge cooling setup: Dual pass with front mount charge cooler

- EGR valve connected: No

- Injector type (part number): Injector 470cc/min (Bosch 0 280 156 280)

- Spark plugs: Denso Iridium Power IK22 / 5310

- Exhaust setup: Tullet 3" tubular manifold, decat and 3" exhaust system with straight through center and rear silencers

- Cam shafts: standard Z22SE

- Fuel pump: Walbro GSS342 High Pressure Fuel Pump

- Fuel pressure: Standard pressure regulator

- Fuel pressure regulator connected to boost: Yes

- Manifold Air Pressure sensor (part number): Bosch 0 281 002 437

- Use Temperature sensor in TMAP for measuring intake air temperature: Yes

- Other important information like cylinder head ported: Cylinder head skim, cylinder rebore +0.5mm, Lightweight Flywheel, Crank Balancing, balance shaft delete, 99 RON fuel, ported inlet to supercharger, lightly ported outlet plate of supercharger.

 

 

Couple of things on that set up, injectors will be close to max out, create a log and warm the car up and do a couple of WOT runs to the red line.

Then take a look at the injector duty cycle.

 

Also the pulley you are running on that SC will induce a lot of heat. again the log will show that.

 

What is your desired power ? 

 

 

I've had a look at previous logging sessions and the worst one i've found is at 6,800 rpm which corresponded to 92% injector duty cycle.

 

Average inlet temp for that session was 50degC with an average ambient temp of 14degC. Forgot to mention that this engine is currently in an Astra.

 

The current car and future VX will be used as a track car. TBH i havent settled on a desired power but have tried to build the engine so that I'm not restricted further down the line. Other than being a B207 head, the head is standard as I was planning to rebuild and port a spare head with uprated cams and springs etc at a later date.

[Fordy]

Also are these correct ? 

 

 Throttle body type: 58mm standard Z22SE throttle body

 Cam shafts: standard Z22SE

 

Id be surprised if you see over 270Bhp with these.

 

Yes, I have (lightly) ported and polished a LS4 throttle body that is ready to install. However, I wanted to get this setup running right first before making anymore modifications.

 

Standard cams will be replaced with uprated cams in the spare head.

[Johnboyhgt]

Personally given you're current set up I'd run with a bigger pulley - perhaps even the standard one. Until the other supporting mods are done you are trying to go too far too soon.

Apologies if that sounds blunt but I suspect running a half way house is what's causing you're issues.



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[smiley]

I think with 68mm TB from lsj, stage 2 cams, 3" pully and porting you should be able to get to 300.
Maybe the 2.8" pully is a bit to much at this stage in your project, using the oem TB.

 

Edited by smiley, 06 July 2020 - 03:25 PM.

[Johnboyhgt]

Exactly where I'm at Smiley.

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[oakmere]

As I said on the PM most calibrations get these spikes with large throttle inputs but some setups seem more prone than others. In the US they reduce the sensitivity to stop this but We don’t have the functionality in OBD tuner. Real knock builds with rpm it doesn’t go straight up then down.

[Sutol]

I had a duty cycle in the 90's and Peter said it was much to high. Changed injectors and now at 70% which he said was spot on.

[Fordy]

Personally given you're current set up I'd run with a bigger pulley - perhaps even the standard one. Until the other supporting mods are done you are trying to go too far too soon.

Apologies if that sounds blunt but I suspect running a half way house is what's causing you're issues.



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No apology needed mate. The supercharger that i purchased already had a 2.8" pulley installed so I've just stuck with that.

 

I'll have a look into a larger pulley.

[Fordy]

I had a duty cycle in the 90's and Peter said it was much to high. Changed injectors and now at 70% which he said was spot on.

 

70% at 7000rpm? What injectors did you use?

[Sutol]

The ones used on the VXR, at 7000. I'm running about 250bhp.

[Fordy]

The ones used on the VXR, at 7000. I'm running about 250bhp.

 

They are the injectors that I am using

[Johnboyhgt]

Though you're running smaller pulley. More air = more fuel too.
The blue vxr injectors will only support circa 270bhp effectively.

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[Fordy]

I think with 68mm TB from lsj, stage 2 cams, 3" pully and porting you should be able to get to 300.
Maybe the 2.8" pully is a bit to much at this stage in your project, using the oem TB.

 

It may be the case but Peter had suggested doing a logging session with the bypass valve 'frigged' open to reduce boost.

 

Still got KR with the reduced boost

 

The only thing i can think of doing is taking it to a dyno and use their knock box to confirm whether it is or isn't knock.