23 replies to this topic

[Crossy]

I've just had a brake upgrade consisting of pagid grooved disks, braided hoses, racing fluid and mintex 1144 pads . I want to know if there is a definitive bedding in procedure. I ran a search and found conflicting advice -some people suggesting no special procedure was necessary to others suggesting a range of 30 - 0 stops or even stops from a much higher speed followed by holding the pedal down for 2 mins was necessary . Did anyone ever get a definitive answer/procedure? After fitting the above I drove 200 miles home using the brakes as lightly as possible for the first 50 - 100 miles then gradually used them more heavily, which is how I would have treated new pads in a standard road car. Cheers

[speedyK]

Yeah – I did a similar search when I got my Pagids.

Graham from Plans had recommended a milder (street legal) version of what most sites, including Pagid's own say about bedding in.

I chose to follow the Pagid recommended procedure for racing pads* – it's different for normal road pads. If you don't do it or if you heavily load them without conditioning them first, you can get glazing and loss of efficiency. You should do it on a track. I consider an empty motorway might be a possible alternative

I did a series 5 0r 6 of 90mph to 50mph medium power brakings with cooling between for several hundred metres. Then a hard 110mph to 50mph (wow!), cooling for about 600 metres then repeated this a couple of times. It works!!!

*It is detailed >here<

Hth

[ShinyAndy]

1144 aren't the same as rs14s though are they ? You should bed them in as per the manufacturers recommendation

[Crossy]

You should bed them in as per the manufacturers recommendation

sensible suggestion

According to the Mintex web site (and Courtenay who fitted them) Clicky

"The bedding in procedure for M1144 is the same as any standard material i.e. steady braking for the first 50 miles, avoiding emergency stops. "

Suppose this is where the well intentioned if uniformed come unstuck.... Courtenays gave me this advice but I remembered various discussions on the subject so searched the site and found masses of conflicting advice. I then searched the web and found similar conflicting advice from seemingly authorative sources - hence my confusion.

As you say probably best to stick with the manufacturers advice on this one -- it's just that sometimes this is not always the case as members from this site have more knowledge/experience and so are worth listening to.

[speedyK]

You should bed them in as per the manufacturers recommendation

Agree - like I said, that's what I did

1144 aren't the same as rs14s though are they ?

I hope not, considering the price difference! I didn't say they were though, did I? Just thought it might be helpful to point out that racing pads have different (obviously pad-specific) bedding-in procedures to run-of-the-mill road pads and, as I had saved the link, thought it might be of interest

[Crossy]

Just thought it might be helpful to point out that racing pads have different (obviously pad-specific) bedding-in procedures to run-of-the-mill road pads and, as I had saved the link, thought it might be of  interest

Hope you were not refering to my new Mintex 1144 as run-of-the-mill road pads



seriously sending the link to the Pagids site made me search out the manufacturers recommendations for the Mintex.

[Jim_Cross]

IIRC the box for the Mintext says something like "No special bedding in procedure"

[ineedtheturbo]

Crossy........ Where did you get the upgrade from and , if you dont mind me asking, how much was the lot?? Sam

[Crossy]

Crossy........

Where did you get the upgrade from and , if you dont mind me asking, how much was the lot??




Sam

Had it done at Coutenay - the did a full CS2 and the brake upgrade at the same time.

The cost of the parts - Pagid disks, mintex pads, hoses, brake fluid and gear oil was just over £500. Fitting was extra - best to give them a call to get an accurate quote as mine was done at the time of doing the CS2.

BTW They did a great job

[madasahatter]

My Mintex 1144s came with a little leaflet inside the box which detailed the manufacturer approved bedding in procedure. It was dead easy to do down a nice straight road with no traffic. They now work very nicely Edit: I might still have one of the leaflets in the car. I could dig it out and post it up if it is of interest.

Edited by madasahatter, 30 June 2005 - 07:22 AM.

[Crossy]

My Mintex 1144s came with a little leaflet inside the box which detailed the manufacturer approved bedding in procedure.

It was dead easy to do down a nice straight road with no traffic.

They now work very nicely 

Edit: I might still have one of the leaflets in the car. I could dig it out and post it up if it is of interest.

I would be interested as this for me is where the confusion arises.

If you look at my post above I quote the bedding in procedure listed on the Mintex website - with a link ( the same instructions given by Courteney who fitted them).... the process being the same as for normal pads i.e take it easy for the first 50 miles with no emergency stops......

But I'm assuming as you mention the use of a quiet road that your bedding in instructions differ?

[madasahatter]

Yup Gimme 30 mins, and I'll post up what the leaflet says - as long as I can find it in the car.

[madasahatter]

Fancied a breather, and found the leaflet.

This is a straight transcribe from it....

Bedding in Procedure

Apply 2-3 Light Applications of the brakes at 30mph down to 0mph

Apply 3-4 Steady Applications of the brakes at 70mph down to 30mph

Leave as long as possible to cool down.

DO NOT LEFT FOOT BRAKE

I suppose the only thing that I did differently, is that I slowed down to about 1mph, rather than coming to a complete stop, since I have heard that this localised heating of the disks, with fresh pads isn't good.

Hope that helps

As an aside, I remember reading in > This Document Clicky < that disks don't warp at all, and that the "juddering" is actually created by pad material being left on the disk. That document goes on to say that the best way to prevent this is having a proper break in procedure, and suggests a suitable procedure for doing so. it is quite aggresive. I tried it on my previous car (a Cerbera) and it seemed to work OK - brake response was good, and certainly the disks didn't "warp".

Anyway. I hope there is some useful information there.

Steve

[Jim_Cross]

That document has caused many an argument on many a forum! He makes a very convincing argument that discs don't warp. However, you still hear race teams, manufacturers and magazines talking about warped discs.

[madasahatter]

Yeah. I know what you mean about that document. I put it there because there is some very useful information in there, from a very experienced source

[CupidKnewRap]

certaintly well written , and with conviction

[Turbo Head]

From Mintex own website: M1144 is simple to bed-in. 4-6 stops from 30-0 mph. using a firm pedal pressure 4-6 stops from 70-30 mph. again using firm pedal pressure. Then allow to cool to ambient. The pads should be bedded after the above sequence. If the pad does not feel as expected then repeat the sequence above.

[speedyK]

"juddering" is actually created by pad material being left on the disk. That document goes on to say that the best way to prevent this is having a proper break in procedure, and suggests a suitable procedure for doing so. it is quite aggresive. I tried it on my previous car (a Cerbera) and it seemed to work OK - brake response was good, and certainly the disks didn't "warp".

Hmmm... back from putting my new Pagids to the test on a track day at Hockenheim.

Now, I followed the breaking-in instructions for these pads. I also had no problems in the 250-odd mile journey to Hock. at speeds of up to around 230kmh. Was also OK for the first few sessions and I never experienced any fade, etc. BUT towards the end of the day a judder had developed that is really quite severe ( the squeaks – despite anti-squeak buffers fitted – I can live with )

This is what they now look like – why should pad material accumulate unevenly? Surely it is a sign that the discs have warped? I also experienced similar symptoms with carbon-kevlar race pads on brand new stock discs on my 300ZX TT.

Looks to me that the higher friction race pads generate heat that the stock discs simply can't survive.

I had my stock Speedster discs (only done around 9,000 miles) reground when fitting the Pagids for 100% effeiciency and it wasfine till they really got used on track, so question is

What do I do now? Re-re-grind them or replace them? Whichever the answer, it clearly won't prevent a re-occurence of the problem. Extra cooling seems mandatory. I'll post about that side of it in the brake cooling thread later.

Attached Files

•  DSCF0005_copy.JPG   48.17KB   0 downloads

Edited by speedyK, 02 July 2005 - 04:34 PM.

[speedyK]

Anyone?

[speedyK]