57 replies to this topic

[VXT Tim]

I'm reviewing all our maps at the moment and how they are measured. New BXT and VXR maps are almost ready along with new VXR Astra turbo maps.

THe NA maps are weird as they feel a lot faster on the road but dont seem to show it on the dyno so we're looking into that to as that maybe a different issue.

Regardless of the outcome any improvements we make to the maps (its an on going process after all) are free to owners.

John, you commented a while ago on the possible need for an uprated boost controller. Is this an option you can provide?

Thanks

[MikeS]

THe NA maps are weird as they feel a lot faster on the road but dont seem to show it on the dyno so we're looking into that to as that maybe a different issue.

Certainly are odd but as you say, they do feel faster on the road. My NA after each stage of your development was much improved but whether that's down to it being just much smoother and more driveable (along with the increased rev-limit which does help) or in fact more powerful, I don't know. Nor do I care to be honest, as I say, it's a much better car to drive all round and unless you've revamped the map since, it's still running your original S2 remap. It's a shame I couldn't make it to the RR day, would've been an interesting comparison if you've still got the original Superchips graphs off my car.

Regardless of the outcome any improvements we make to the maps (its an on going process after all) are free to owners.

Stonking Let's hope when I pick it up from Baylis tomorrow that they have reflashed the ECU

[Thorney]

John, you commented a while ago on the possible need for an uprated boost controller. Is this an option you can provide?

We about to start testing these, will report back the findings. We're actually spending the day today trying to perfect the Astra VXR turbo maps......

[VXT Tim]

[siztenboots]

sorry for the delay, computer disk died and it takes ages to get back to a reasonable state



Excel spreadie updated.....





PS - fcuk me, mine is good!!

Completely standard, date 14/06/06 , TMS stage 1

The figures are as follows:
Dyno at the flywheel Before : 208 Bhp , thorney was impressed "nice engine"
Dyno at the flywheel After : 213.3 Bhp
Torque AF Before : 206ftlb
Torque AF After : 250ftlb

Peak 213Bhp now comes 5200rpm, 208Bhp @ 5800 before

Dyno at the wheels Before : 174 Bhp @5800rpm
Dyno at the wheels After : 178.3 Bhp @5200rpm
Torque AW Before : 172ftlb @2950rpm
Torque AW After : 208ftlb @3300rpm

[kdfisher]

sorry for the delay, computer disk died and it takes ages to get back to a reasonable state



Excel spreadie updated.....





PS - fcuk me, mine is good!!

Completely standard, date 14/06/06 , TMS stage 1

The figures are as follows:
Dyno at the flywheel Before : 208 Bhp , thorney was impressed "nice engine"
Dyno at the flywheel After : 213.3 Bhp
Torque AF Before : 206ftlb
Torque AF After : 250ftlb

Peak 213Bhp now comes 5200rpm, 208Bhp @ 5800 before

Dyno at the wheels Before : 174 Bhp @5800rpm
Dyno at the wheels After : 178.3 Bhp @5200rpm
Torque AW Before : 172ftlb @2950rpm
Torque AW After : 208ftlb @3300rpm

In view of my post on this subject, I'll get my numbers tonight for a Stage 2 with Miltek.

Fish

[colgy]

John - any news on revised maps or uprated boost controllers?

[kdfisher]

Stage 2 + Miltek: 184.8 at the wheels 220.7 at the flywheel Fish

[colgy]

Stage 2 + Miltek:

184.8 at the wheels
220.7 at the flywheel



Fish

Whats a 2+ Milltek? Whats the difference between that and a 2?

[Joe-Turbo]

im guessing he means a stage 2 remap with a full milltek exhaust

[RichH]

im guessing he means a stage 2 remap with a full milltek exhaust

I would think so.

As opposed to a stage 2 remap with a blue flame (for example) exhaust system.

Either way the whole exhaust system will have been changed in order to allow the stage 2 map to be used.

[Supernova!]

Seems bizzare - 197HP quoted as standard for the VXT at the flywheel - 213-225 with a stage one remap where as most tuners seems to quote 220-245hp once remapped stage one!! Are we being misled or am I just missing the point somewhere along the line??? Thorney Motorsport VX220T Stage 1 ECU re-map. Approx +20 bhp (+40 bhp midrange) - £550 fitted Celtec Tuning Engine 2.0 16v Turbo Existing Power (bhp) 197 Existing Torque (lbft) 193 Remapped Power (bhp) 245 Remapped Torque (lbft) 240 Exclusive Courtenay Sport Software Upgrade, Rolling Road Tune Increases up to 225 bhp N.

[kdfisher]

Seems bizzare - 197HP quoted as standard for the VXT at the flywheel - 213-225 with a stage one remap where as most tuners seems to quote 220-245hp once remapped stage one!!

Are we being misled or am I just missing the point somewhere along the line???

Thorney Motorsport VX220T Stage 1
ECU re-map. Approx +20 bhp (+40 bhp midrange) - £550 fitted

Celtec Tuning
Engine 2.0 16v Turbo
Existing Power (bhp) 197
Existing Torque (lbft) 193
Remapped Power (bhp) 245
Remapped Torque (lbft) 240

Exclusive Courtenay Sport Software Upgrade, Rolling Road Tune

Increases up to 225 bhp



N.

I suspect it's down to the rolling road and giving punters what they want. My original AMD stage 1 showed 242 bhp and 256 on the G-Force RR.

TMS's rr I wager is more accurate - interestingly there was some car/bike programme last night on Sky where a guy put his modded bike on to an RR, the idea being although it was a 10 yr old bike, with the all the mods it would have more power than the original - the rr they used...........TMS.

As somebody posted, it's not what bhp you're supposed to have, it's how it feels on the road that's important

I'm just staggered at the differences, that's all



Fish

p.s yes, mine is a stage 2 with full Miltek

[cheeky_chops]

im guessing he means a stage 2 remap with a full milltek exhaust

I would think so.

As opposed to a stage 2 remap with a blue flame (for example) exhaust system.

Either way the whole exhaust system will have been changed in order to allow the stage 2 map to be used.

You are falling for a load of marketing driven bollocks - i am still on the original AMD remap that i had with just a precat pipe. Now have a full zorst and 255bhp

[Thorney]

You can run any stage map with any mod, its not like the software cannot be installed on the ECU, the difference is that the maps are quite different depending what other mods are there. We run higher held and peak boost on the stage 2 maps (with freeer breathing exhaust) with more advanced timing and fueling, but this doesn't mean a stage 1 map won't work with an exhaust, just it wont be as tuned to the system thats all.

[paulf-cam]

THe NA maps are weird as they feel a lot faster on the road but dont seem to show it on the dyno so we're looking into that to as that maybe a different issue.

I think i can probably answer this problem - its all down to extra torque and where in the rev range the extra torque is delivered:

If you want high bhp figures you need higher torque at the top of the rev range (where max bhp is acheived), however, i suspect the NA maps all make very similar torque at the high revs as they did before remapping.

However, the different feel when driving them after a remap will be the extra torque in the low end and middle of the rev range giving you greater acceleration and over-taking power, which is shown on the RR as an increased peak torque figure.

Ta, Paul.

[tucker]

THe NA maps are weird as they feel a lot faster on the road but dont seem to show it on the dyno so we're looking into that to as that maybe a different issue.

I think i can probably answer this problem - its all down to extra torque and where in the rev range the extra torque is delivered:

If you want high bhp figures you need higher torque at the top of the rev range (where max bhp is acheived), however, i suspect the NA maps all make very similar torque at the high revs as they did before remapping.

However, the different feel when driving them after a remap will be the extra torque in the low end and middle of the rev range giving you greater acceleration and over-taking power, which is shown on the RR as an increased peak torque figure.

Ta, Paul.

How does this tie in with the bhp graphs shown on the Thorney Motorsport website? I should add I've got the NA stage 2+ and regardless of the figures achieved it put a smile on my face as I drove home from Milton Keynes!

[paulf-cam]

How does this tie in with the bhp graphs shown on the Thorney Motorsport website? I should add I've got the NA stage 2+ and regardless of the figures achieved it put a smile on my face as I drove home from Milton Keynes!

Dunno - if someone posts their own TMS before and after torque curves i can try and show what i mean... Maybe

Ta, Paul.