64 replies to this topic

[speedster]

What other 'popular' car manufacturers design and sell a car which falls into the VX/Speedster category? That is a 2 seater rear wheel drive with a mid-mounted engine. Exclude Lotus and similar, they don't make everyday vehicles like the Astra and Omega. The Honda S2000 is out too, its front engined rear wheel drive. There is the Toyota MR2 but its current design is a bit, well........ off the mark (IMO). Trying to establish how unique the car is! Anybody?

Edited by speedster, 16 August 2006 - 11:40 PM.

[kjmac]

What other 'popular' car manufacturers design and sell a car which falls into the VX/Speedster category? That is a 2 seater rear wheel drive with a mid-mounted engine.

Exclude Lotus and similar, they don't make everyday vehicles like the Astra and Omega. The Honda S2000 is out too, its front wheel drive. There is the Toyota MR2 but its current design is a bit, well........ off the mark (IMO).

Trying to establish how unique the car is!

Anybody?

Er, the S2000 is front-engined RWD, not FWD!

[speedster]

What other 'popular' car manufacturers design and sell a car which falls into the VX/Speedster category? That is a 2 seater rear wheel drive with a mid-mounted engine.

Exclude Lotus and similar, they don't make everyday vehicles like the Astra and Omega. The Honda S2000 is out too, its front wheel drive. There is the Toyota MR2 but its current design is a bit, well........ off the mark (IMO).

Trying to establish how unique the car is!

Anybody?

Er, the S2000 is front-engined RWD, not FWD!

Your pulling my leg!!

Edited by speedster, 16 August 2006 - 11:41 PM.

[djegiant]

What other 'popular' car manufacturers design and sell a car which falls into the VX/Speedster category? That is a 2 seater rear wheel drive with a mid-mounted engine.

Exclude Lotus and similar, they don't make everyday vehicles like the Astra and Omega. The Honda S2000 is out too, its front wheel drive. There is the Toyota MR2 but its current design is a bit, well........ off the mark (IMO).

Trying to establish how unique the car is!

Anybody?

Er, the S2000 is front-engined RWD, not FWD!

Your pulling my leg!!

S2K is RWD!

[Robski]

Ford..... they do the Ford GT

[JimH]

Tell you what. Before I go mouthing off why don't I read the original post properly. Then I won't look like a complete tit all the time.

Edited by JimH, 17 August 2006 - 07:57 AM.

[robD]

If you exclude the MGF on the basis that it's not really a sports car then you are left with examples from the past eg lancia Monte Carlo, Renault sport spider. There was also a Matra Simca from the 1970's which had 3 seats across the front but I can't remember if the engine was mounted in the front or back. And then of course there's Porsche but members of this forum probably have more taste than to be seen in a porker. Bob

[ajussi]

http://www.matraspor...ed/s1_xray.html

[h8ten]

Only other ones I can think of are no longer available, Fiat X1/9 and the Pontiac Fiero. Matra Simca was the Bagheera, mid engined 1294cc, named after the Jungle Book character. Forgot about possibly the most famous, De Lorean DMC-12.

Edited by h8ten, 17 August 2006 - 07:21 AM.

[JimH]

If you are talking about the mainstream (trying to ignore race/rally freaks) then the only ones I can think of are: Fiat: X1-9 Lancia: Lancia Beta Monte Carlo Renault: Sport Spyder, R5 Turbo/Turbo 2 (are these rally freaks?), What are those V6 Clios called? Rover: MGF (can't really count the Rover P6BS or the why the blinking flip didn't they build that one ADO21) Matra: Baghera and the gorgeous Murena Toyota: MR2 Porsche: Boxster/Cayman, 914, 916 I suppose it could be suggested that the Dino 308, Urracco and Merak were all efforts to be a bit more mainstream but none of those manufacturers could be considered mass market. It is also possibly unfair to exclude Lotus from consideration because they did so much to bring low cost mid engined cars to the common(ish) man.

[jules_s]

Tell you what. Before I go mouthing off why don't I read the original post properly. Then I won't look like a complete tit all the time.

Beaten by the FWD edit?

[JimH]

No, no. Beaten by my eyes reading one thing and my brain reading another. It's the voices, you see.

[paulf-cam]

No, no. Beaten by my eyes reading one thing and my brain reading another. It's the voices, you see.

Smart roadster?



Ta, Paul.

[JimH]

Are they mid engined? I know chuff all about them and I'd got it in my head they are/were rear engined.

[rabidh]

I'd have said mid engined. The smart is about as rear engined as a VX would be if it didn't have a boot.

[speedyK]

If you are talking about the mainstream (trying to ignore race/rally freaks) then the only ones I can think of are:

Fiat: X1-9
Lancia: Lancia Beta Monte Carlo
Renault: Sport Spyder, R5 Turbo/Turbo 2 (are these rally freaks?), What are those V6 Clios called?
Rover: MGF (can't really count the Rover P6BS or the why the blinking flip didn't they build that one ADO21)
Matra: Baghera and the gorgeous Murena
Toyota: MR2
Porsche: Boxster/Cayman, 914, 916

I suppose it could be suggested that the Dino 308, Urracco and Merak were all efforts to be a bit more mainstream but none of those manufacturers could be considered mass market. It is also possibly unfair to exclude Lotus from consideration because they did so much to bring low cost mid engined cars to the common(ish) man.

After Lancia killed the Monte Carlo and Matra stopped Murena production in 1984 (to build the strange new car which they had designed and which Peugeot rejected, but Renault agreed to market – the Espace), it was a long, long wait until the next reasonably-priced mid-engined car arrived. (The Pontiac Fiero was dynamically challenged and not worth considering).

Yet a small, mid-engined car would not have been difficult for most manufacturers to make – you take a decent motor from a FWD hatch and put it behind the seats of a two seater – as Fiat did with the 128-engined X1/9 (another great car at the time – first I ever bought new).

Sadly, no mainstream stuff materialised for years, but there were the odd promising ones that never really got far, such as the AC ME3000 and the Panther Solo (proclaimed at the time by Car magazine as the most significant British sportscar since the E-Type).

The emergnce of the Elise and its subsequent derivates was like a dream come true for a dedicated mid-engined fan. My X1/9 was a fantastic package, my Matra took it to the next level, the VX moved the goal posts considerably and my Exige Cup with S/C is breathtaking. Wonder if it will progress – what will we be able to buy in 10 years?

My bro just bought the last Smart Roadster-Coupé Brabus Xklusiv (to give it its full name) in the UK for his wife and she is raving about it – it is rear-engined, but well balanced – a sort of mini modern 911. But then, her other car is a Volvo V70 AWD, so most things would seem more fun . They are quite good fun actually, but not in the VX league. Don't know if the plans to resurrect the Smart roadster under the MG banner will come to anything...

My Matra (old, scanned pics):

[JimH]

You had a Murena - I'm impressed.

I'd forgotten about both the AC and the Solo. The Solo was a brave attempt and might have made it give better luck.

The absence of other mainstream mid engined cars has always puzzled me. Even in cases where they get it right the manufacturer seems to be desperate to disown it. Fiat couldn't dump the X1-9 back on Bertone fast enough. I suppose even in the case where you use a huge amount of part bin odds and sods the margins must be pretty tight on them.

Take a look at some of those that never got out of the BMC studios. Can't help but feel that these might have helped things along

The Dino-eaque ADO21
The nicely styled Rover P6BS / P9

Plenty of parts bin components but put together in a way which makes you think they might have been worth pursuing. I'm sure most of the other manufacterers had ideas like this before throwing them in the bin and building yet another wanky hatchback.

[Ferguson]

Only other ones I can think of are no longer available, Fiat X1/9 and the Pontiac Fiero. Matra Simca was the Bagheera, mid engined 1294cc, named after the Jungle Book character.
Forgot about possibly the most famous, De Lorean DMC-12.

DMC-12 was rear engine, not mid. The central backbone chassis branched at a Y at each end, and the engine was sitting mostly, if not fully, behind the rear axle.

The final year Fiero suspension was updated and was much better sorted than the original Chevette-based hardware, but it was killed off before more people could get their hands on it and appreciate the improvements.

Edited by Ferguson, 17 August 2006 - 12:00 PM.

[jazzyjeff]

Being pedantic... the MGF/TF was front wheel drive and the Matra's were three seaters... JJ

[Ferguson]

Being pedantic... the MGF/TF was front wheel drive

In reverse gear?