64 replies to this topic

[JimH]

Indeed. It's difficult to find something more mainstream than the Boxster.

[speedyK]

I would still argue to have the Europa included on the list because that started the whole thing off.

No, it didn't. >clicky<

The first road-going, mid-engined production car came in 1962. By the time Matra released their Murena they had already nearly twenty years experience of the mid-engined configuration with the 3 previous designs, including the stiking (to phrase it diplomatically) 2+2 M530. As an aside, there are few 2+2 mid-engined cars: the M530, Ferrari 308 Bertone and Mondial. that's about it...

If you want to include the Europa, that's no more mainstream than Matra was before its alliance with Simca, then PSA, then Renault.

The parallels between Matra and Lotus are quite striking: racing pedigree (Matra won the F1 World championship, then concentrated on Le Mans with back to back victories); low slung, mid-engined, lightweight sportscars; doing development work for other companies.

Edited by speedyK, 18 August 2006 - 11:06 AM.

[robD]

For the sake of completeness I think that the Renault Sport Spider ought to be added to the list. It can be argued ( and indeed is argued) that the spider was the car that inspired the Elise. The sport spider was only produced ( I think ) for 2 years - 1997 and 1998. As a mid engined ( 2L williams clio ) 2 seater sports with welded aluminium chassis and aluminium body it was quite revolutionary ( especially as only the British imports had windscreens) . The car was killed of by the introduction of the Elise which had a more prestigious badge and was cheaper.

[JimH]

So it is now: Toyota MR2 Fiat X19 Rover MGF Smart Car Matra Murena Matra Bagheera Lancia Beta Monte Carlo Porsche 914 Pontiac Fiero Matra Bonnet Djet 5 Matra 530 Porsche Boxster Renault Sport Syder Not too many dogs on that list.

Edited by JimH, 18 August 2006 - 12:10 PM.

[marct10]

The Smart Roadster has electric power steering (easy to disable) as does the MK2 MR2, the only good MR2 was the MK1, no power steerig and like the VX220 a close development with Lotus.

Edited by marct10, 18 August 2006 - 11:58 AM.

[Ferguson]

For the sake of completeness I think that the Renault Sport Spider ought to be added to the list. It can be argued ( and indeed is argued) that the spider was the car that inspired the Elise. The sport spider was only produced ( I think ) for 2 years - 1997 and 1998. As a mid engined ( 2L williams clio ) 2 seater sports with welded aluminium chassis and aluminium body it was quite revolutionary ( especially as only the British imports had windscreens) . The car was killed of by the introduction of the Elise which had a more prestigious badge and was cheaper.

Elise development predated / overlapped with the Sport Spider. The Sport Spider was somewhat revolutionary, but the Renault engineers felt a bit silly when they found out that what they had assumed could not be done (bonded aluminum chassis) could indeed be done. If I'm not mistaken, the same company made the extrusions for both the Elise and Sport Spider, so Renault really must have felt burnt when they saw what was indeed possible.

The Sport Spider was also killed off because it was just too impractical, and any attempts to make it more practical ruined the form. Ever seen a Sport Spider with the optional soft top in place?

Edited by Ferguson, 18 August 2006 - 12:02 PM.

[JimH]

I think the most tedious racing I have ever witnessed was the Renault Sport Spyder class.

[Jase_MK]

Lancia Stratos? Also, was that old Renault Alpine MR, or am I talking out of my arse?

[JimH]

Lancia Stratos belongs in either the rally freak or supercar class. Take your pick which one.

[Jase_MK]

Fair enough. Was the renault front engined?

[JimH]

The Renault Alpines were all rear engined weren't they? Or am I talking sh*t?

[RichH]

Lotus 340R?

[turboman]

If were going to have Porsche than we need Lotus Elise too.

[JimH]

It was decided to exclude Lotus as a small manufacturer. There were murmurings that Porsche was considering a bid for VW which makes it as mainstream as Ford.

[Ferguson]

The Renault Alpines were all rear engined weren't they? Or am I talking sh*t?

Rear-engined and definitely niche production numbers. Beautiful cars, mind you.

[speedster]

What about the Renault 5 Turbo?

Edited by speedster, 18 August 2006 - 03:38 PM.

[RichH]

Clio V6 ?

[simonrockman]

What about the Renault 5 Turbo?

Not one of those - it's both front engined and front wheel drive.

This On The Other hand is mid-engined RWD



I think the NSX should be allowed. Still if you won't let me have that Honda what about a Honda Beat?

[crsnwby]

You all forgot a few favourites

Montreal



AND

SV



Personally the SV looks topper although it does cost 20 gigawatts

Edited by crsnwby, 18 August 2006 - 05:57 PM.

[speedster]

You all forgot a few favourites


AND


Personally the SV looks topper although it does cost 20 gigawatts

Are these mid-mount engined + rear-wheel driven?