20 replies to this topic

[Thorney]

I've had so many people ask about these that I bulk emailed it, but I've not done that before so in case it didn't work, the details are in the reviews section (under editorial) or can be found HERE

[Sicey]

Nice work John. When are you going to do some in gear timings 30-70 bla bla

[SSH1]

Good report Thorney, soooo tempted, but bit financially embarassed at present. By the way is it just me or is anyone else having probs getting onto AMD's site? I click on the link & get to the page, but it doesn't load, just get left with a black screen with a white square in the middle.

[R1 nur]

Thanks for that. I want to get stuck into this lot but waiting for the final spec on the sprint.

[Turbo Head]

I click on the link & get to the page, but it doesn't load, just get left with a black screen with a white square in the middle.

Loads okay for me!

[Ducati996Senna]

Thanks Thorney for all your efforts. I shall be calling AMD to upgrade my VXT in time.

[VIX]

By the way is it just me or is anyone else having probs getting onto AMD's site?

I click on the link  & get to the page, but it doesn't load, just get left with a black screen with a white square in the middle.

It looks like their site has been flashed - looks good but could do with a SKIP INTRO link for us poor non-broadband people in the nethers of MK!

I was sure their site had some figures for possible power increases to the NA but now can't find them. Anyone any ideas?

cheers

[Thorney]

I had an interesting conversation with the VX specialist technician at Burnham Garage, "what have you done to it, it was like a rocket"

[capelink]

Hi Thorney,

the charge-cooler is definitely a trick setup. Can you give a bit more information on the testing/results that went into the kit ?

The old rule-of-thumb was that for every 2 or 3 degrees C the intake/charge temperature was lowered, you could get an extra 1bhp - plus stop the motor from risking a blow-up

I did post an item about the aquamist setup but nobody seems to be bothered in discussing the ins/outs of this line of thought in solving the same fundamental heat issues. Some people say it is very good at reducing in-cylinder temperatures, others say it also reduces charge temperatures (but to a lesser extent). Who do you believe ?!?

I did read some dyno figures based on a Vauxhall Cav. Turbo (C20LET engine) whilst the owner was playing with intake cooling hardware. The dyno printouts published told an interesting story :

(all on a standard engine)
standard car - 204bhp
air-water charge-cooler - 220bhp
large front mount intercooler - 239bhp

All with no other engine/boost mods - just goes to show the benefits of good intake temps !!

Read about it at http://www.a-bothie....ooler_info.html

When addressing the intake temp problem, did you try and get a larger capacity intercooler made, or is it a no-go like they must have assumed on the sprint ?

In your testing of the charge-cooler setup, what were the intake temps before/after and under road/track conditions with relation to the normal ambient air temps ? What's the trigger for the system, is the electric pump on with the ignition, or is it triggered by boost levels/temperature ?

If you want to label me as an obsessive pain then that's fine by me.. just want to know that a VX is for life , not just until the engine blows up
(I'm not a drive-in/chip it to the max/drive-out person either.. I like to know what they are actually doing)

Interestingly enough, Courtenay will now up the boost to generate 255bhp with no extra cooling so long as super + is used.. not sure I'd be happy running like that though, and I'm sure the high temps would soon make that power drop off even on the road.

Thanks,

Paul

[Thorney]

Hi Thorney,

the charge-cooler is definitely a trick setup. Can you give a bit more information on the testing/results that went into the kit ?

The old rule-of-thumb was that for every 2 or 3 degrees C the intake/charge temperature was lowered, you could get an extra 1bhp - plus stop the motor from risking a blow-up

I did post an item about the aquamist setup but nobody seems to be bothered in discussing the ins/outs of this line of thought in solving the same fundamental heat issues. Some people say it is very good at reducing in-cylinder temperatures, others say it also reduces charge temperatures (but to a lesser extent). Who do you believe ?!?

I did read some dyno figures based on a Vauxhall Cav. Turbo (C20LET engine) whilst the owner was playing with intake cooling hardware. The dyno printouts published told an interesting story :

(all on a standard engine)
standard car - 204bhp
air-water charge-cooler - 220bhp
large front mount intercooler - 239bhp

All with no other engine/boost mods - just goes to show the benefits of good intake temps !!

Read about it at http://www.a-bothie....ooler_info.html

When addressing the intake temp problem, did you try and get a larger capacity intercooler made, or is it a no-go like they must have assumed on the sprint ?

In your testing of the charge-cooler setup, what were the intake temps before/after and under road/track conditions with relation to the normal ambient air temps ? What's the trigger for the system, is the electric pump on with the ignition, or is it triggered by boost levels/temperature ?

If you want to label me as an obsessive pain then that's fine by me.. just want to know that a VX is for life , not just until the engine blows up
(I'm not a drive-in/chip it to the max/drive-out person either.. I like to know what they are actually doing)

Interestingly enough, Courtenay will now up the boost to generate 255bhp with no extra cooling so long as super + is used.. not sure I'd be happy running like that though, and I'm sure the high temps would soon make that power drop off even on the road.

Thanks,

Paul

The charge cooler was designed and built by a company that only makes charge coolers (primarily for race teams and high end sports cars). The system is 'live' all the time as the thermostat controls the temperature from going too low.

Aquamist kits are very good at reducing in cylinder temps (albeit very temporarily as the systems are designed really only to work when things get too hot) but have a much more limited effect in intake temps (although some effect is probable).

I've seen a load of data on the engine but in Astras, Vetras etc and to be frank ALL of this data is junk for us. The postion of the engine in the back of the car changes all the parameters for temperature and operating margin. Some tuners have simply assumed what works for the Astra must work for the VX and thats cobblers.

The intercooler is actually pretty good and doesn't need changing (especially with a CC), we could have gone bigger but the relative gains to cost wouldn't have been worth it, the CC does all the work now. The CC has a separate radiator fitted vertically to the front (so that it doesn't affect air flow to the main rad) so in effect the CC system is a completely separate cooling system for the car, only downside is weight - all wet it adds 10kg's but if that allows you to run 260-280bhp without issue then thats a small price to pay.

It is certainly possible to bolt on a chip and get an extra 50 bhp odd (assuming you have a Milltek or equivalent) but I had looong conversations with vauxhall on the heat issue and the bottom line is that this was a short cut to and engine blow. You might get lucky and it last months and months - but this is my personal car, so if I mod it how I want it it has to be as or even more reliable than how it was originally made - sadly that can't be cheap.

After watching AmD fit the system I'm actually quite surprised they agreed to my price suggestion (the deal was they benefit from me making my car available and being on hand for testing etc etc - invaluable to them, the other way if for them to buy a car) but they had to keep the price real and achievable.

To fit a CC, the front clam and side pod comes off. They then have to fit front rad, lead 1/4 pipe from this rad through the drivers side sill and up to the CC which is fitted to the right of the engine bay then pipe it all into the engine - a significant amount of work. As I know the cost price of the CC is a significant % of the overall cost I don't think AmD is making any profit on the CC on its own. This reflects its usage - the CC is ONLY there to allow you to run much higher power.

[Chuck]

Thorney, Have you changed camber angles since the suspension, I know you were looking in some new settings?

[Thorney]

Thorney,

Have you changed camber angles since the suspension, I know you were looking in some new settings?

yep, I've been messing with a few and will post up the results.

[Steve Crisp]

Hi Thorney, I don't want any laughter (from anybody), I'm just interested to know what consumption figures you now get, and what fuel? Steve

[Thorney]

None at all. I still get 180 odd miles to a tank (although track usage is still at the truely woeful 8mpg I'm afraid)

[Steve Crisp]

A lot better than I thought it would be! Steve

[Thorney]

oh yeah, I tend to use Optimax if I can find it but I don't get too anal about it, its had 95 in it a few times (which I try to avoid) without any bad effect but Opti does make it feel a bit smoother (could be psychological)

[madasahatter]

Sorry to drag this back up - I only have a small brain, and it only thinks of one question at a time. Like a few people here, I use the car all year round and while power is a very nice thing to have, when the weather gets crap like it is at the moment, and there are leaves everywhere I cannot imagine driving a 270Bhp car which is as light as a VXT is would be a very relaxing experience. The standard 200Bhp VXT is quite relaxing to drive. The reason for this is because I believe (possibly wrongly) that the tuning, and remapping of the engine would make the power delivery of the turbo more spikey - particularly when the turbo spools up in the Overboost phase. Is this true? Following down this line, would it be possible to have a variable system setup? For instance, the max it would go to might be 240Bhp, but it you could turn it down to 200Bhp for the slippy/snowy/crap days when you cannot enjoy the power as much. I know the re-map has probably upped the boost, so would a boost controller do this? Can a VXT take a boost controller (since I guess it attachs to the ECU). So many questions. Thanks for putting up with me!! cheers

[Thorney]

This os where the skill of the map comes in. What you want is a nice smooth torque curve with no peaks or troughs so that the issue of power 'suddenly' coming in doesn't happen. I have to say I now am very careful in the wet because I know that that amount of power can have me pointing in the wrong directlion pretty quickly. However it never catches you unaware as its nice and smooth.

[SILVERSPEED]

Track day in the rain a no go then - GR8 booked and paid for Dono on Sunday - loverleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeey! We are going to need a boat to get around according to the weather forecasters! Oh well at least I'll find out if it floats.

[Thorney]

Oh no quite the opposite, I did Oulton in torrential rain all day - I learnt more about how far I could push the car on a track than I'd ever had before. One little tip......in the rain for tight chicane type corners is keep braking later into the bend than normal (I know it sounds weird) but it keeps the weight on the front for longer and allows you to carry more speed in and accelerate through better. I didn't believe it at first but must have knocked a coupe of second of the lap time (it really was pissing down). I was out with AWD Audis at the time so it really did show where the AWD allowed them to abuse the car round the circuit whereas I had to seriously concentrate and pick lines really carefully.