27 replies to this topic

[Timbo]

I asked a while ago should i get a remap or an exhaust for my vxt and most of you said remap. Well im glad i asked, had it done today at AMD and im speachless!! I dont think i can honestly say ive been in anything else which is so brutally quick up to about 100. Ive gone from 201bhp and about 190 lb ft with an induction kit to 247 and 251. If your not sure what to do get a remap its the best performance gain per pound that you will spend, i love it. p.s quick question for you know it alls how do you work out power to weight ratio's?

[B4D_VX]

I'm confused as to why AMD's re-map is apparently fine for the engine, but Chip Tuning UK's re-map to roughly the same power was slated as being dangerous. As for power-to-weight ratios, divide the bhp by the weight in tonnes: ie 250bhp in a 900kg car would be (250/0.9) = 277 bhp per tonne. The VXT is listed at 930kg, so you have 266bhp bhp per tonne.

[madasahatter]

Timbo. That sounds good. If it isn't a really ignorant question, can I ask how much the remap alone cost? The AMD Site lists Phase 1 as including the exhaust, and as such it is over a grand. How much is the remap alone? Sounds like a very good option to me!! Steve

[Timbo]

B4D VX cant really answer your question but i think its got something to do with it being a remap not just a change of chip, but im sure there is someone on this site (Thorney) who could clarifie that. Madasahatter it was 550 quid + the dreaded, money well spent i think and i suspect when you've been in one with it done you will to!!

[minime]

its funny pete that also regals remap for the turbo has had the same said about it! now something that may be regarded as interesting is that there is a 400bhp vxt being currently tested in germany! i think has new pistons crank bigger turbo larger intercooler etc....so far the engine and gear box have taken the power!

[Thorney]

To be honest that sounds a bit high, I'll be having a word with AmD. All the maps I've been testing are designed for each level of tune, hence the stages. That sounds like a stage 2 map (but without a Milltek) so could be a bit high. All of the maps are written for torque not BHP so part of it could be down to Timbos car being a good un but they may have put the wrong map on. Stage 1 (ie map only, no mechanicals) should be about 220-30bhp and 230llb's of torque. I'll look into it for you.

[cheeky_chops]

So Timbo, does it make up for all the problems??

[Thorney]

its funny pete that also regals remap for the turbo has had the same said about it!

I'm getting a bit fed up with the snipes.

The reason why I went to such hard work on sorting extra engine cooling is bacause Vauxhall said it was a massive problem.

Stu Harris in no uncertain terms explained that enormous problems were caused by excess heat and so he recommended that we look at cooling as a priority over and above all else.

I have been consistent in all my posts that the engine is relatively easy to remap and get more power out of but if no attention is given to cooling it WILL cause problems in the future.

If Regal and Chiptuning (who incidentally give nothing back to the club via their paid salespeople) don't see cooling as an issue then I'm honour bound to warn people, in the same way if AmD have done something wrong I am honour bound to both make sure it doesn't happen again and sort it.

[SSH1]

Thorney I don't believe that anyone is sniping at you, we all appreciate the work you have put in here, but it is difficult to comprehend how a couple of tuners 'chip'/remap what ever can get slated for putting the car at circa 250bhp, then contrary to what we have been informed AMD get Timbos car up to this level with just an induction filter. This appears to contradict what they have on their website where level 1 is 220-230 bhp (with no other mods) level 2 is 240 bhp with filter & exhaust & level 3 is bhp full monty that you have. I believe that someone else on here got an AMD map & over 250bhp & almost as much torque as yours with a filter & exhaust, is that their estimates are conservative? I want to get my turbo chipped but am concerned about all these contravening reports that I keep reading. Chris

[Bengie]

Thorney: You've given people enough warnings. I know it's not just a case of people saying things that are different to what you've said, and as I remember it, your main gripe against ChipTuning was that they didn't ask before advertising. The cooling issue started out as a side point.

Guys: Don't jump down Thorney's throat. He's only going off what people like Stu have said to him.

I know that if I'd got the Turbo VX, then I'd listen to what you've said, and go to AMD, or if I went to A.N.Other tuning company I'd insist that cooling was sorted first.

In the end it's your car - Thorney, Stu, Minime, Me, can say what we would do, but it's your money, and your choice.

I'd want the car to last me until I wanted to change it, and not be forced into a change because I couldn't afford to repair damage caused by turning the wick up too far.

The comments made by some people towards other people (you can make your own minds up as to who I'm refering to) are becoming childish.

Give it a break will ya!

[Thorney]

The confusion comes around from the fact that I think AmD have put the wrong map on in this instance. There are three maps - all giving different power/torque depending on what other tuning has been done. The 2 reasons why the maps are different for each level of tune is for customisation for the different characteristics and secondly for safety over the heat build up. It is dead easy to put a stage 3 (or whatever the tuner calls it) onto a car without any other mods, but all that will happen is that the heat generation will eventually cause failure. The problem with tuners is that eveyone has their favourites and they want to defend their choice, I as runner of this site have to be as independant as possible. Yes I prefer AmD, and yes I don't pay labour for the work that they do as it is all development and takes massives amount of time, I do however pay for parts. AmD are hugely enthusiastic on the car and take their own time out to help without commercial gain - they attended Brunters and helped sell the club merchandise, no-one paid them and they did it for us......I havent seen any other tuner want to be as helpful? Minime gets all his Regal work free, Pete at PVD is a buisness and such is always looking for cheapest sources of product to sell. I actively approached ALL the tuning companies for involvement here, Courtenay are here for example and despite Regal making thousands of pounds out of members on this site they offer nothing back to us in the slightest - so yes I do feel sniped at.

[minime]

i actually agree with thorney in terms of a remap that provides upto 40bhp/lbft without any sorts of up grades to both the exhaust/inlet and cooling.......( esp. cooling ie larger intercooler or charge cooler) its amazing how much some of these mods cost to develop! and more so how little profit is in them! its good to see so many more tuning companies getting involved! from when i first started getting mods to my car last june there was only one company i could find that was willing to do things but now! if this is what s achieveable in just over a year what is going to be available in the next! every little helps! and dont get me wrong i appreciate everything!

[garyk220]

I'm getting a bit fed up with the snipes.

The reason why I went to such hard work on sorting extra engine cooling is bacause Vauxhall said it was a massive problem.

Stu Harris in no uncertain terms explained that enormous problems were caused by excess heat and so he recommended that we look at cooling as a priority over and above all else.

Each individuals requirements will be different. The important thing is that we can all learn from Vauxhall/Courtenay and Thorney/AMD development, and make informed decisions.

I for one, will definitely sort out the induction cooling on mine before even considering a remap... I reckon I was losing 40-50bhp at the Issoire track day due to heat build up. With a remap, the heat would build up quicker, and I'd loose a lot more after sustained use. A charge cooler would be of more use to me in this instance, than a notional 40bhp from a remap.

For those not tracking their car regularly, heat build up will be less of an issue, so you can enjoy the added boost relatively safely.

A boost guage would a good idea for all VXT owners though, to help keep and eye on what the ECU is doing when the engine gets hot.

I for one, certainly appreciate all the effort you are putting in Thorney. And I'm learning a hell of a lot about turbo engines My only complaint is all this money you're forcing me to spend on mods

[Timbo]

Sorry guys didnt mean to stir up a hornets nest, i for one have listened to what Thorney has had to say about cooling issues (and other people), but seeing as Thorney has had the work done on his own personal car and been involved in the developement i believe he probably knows more than most. As for my own car yes i did get it remapped before sorting out the cooling side of it (my choice), it is winter and early next year i will be getting an exhaust which should aid cooling as well. It is my second vehicle so dont drive it during the week only weekends, i dont do track days (well not yet anyway) and yes it is more power than amd qoute and myself or Thorney will be in touch with them to find out why. As my mother used to say, go and wash your hands (sorry wrong saying), everything will come out in the wash. Great site, great bunch of people, lets not spoil it!!! cheers Timbo

[Chuck]

Confused you will be!!!!!!

[Man-Chun]

Hi all, I'm from the Astra-Sport forum and drive a Astra coupe turbo myself. Thorney could you tell me a bit more about the cooling issues with the vx220 turbo?, is the intercooler too small?.

[Thorney]

Hi all,

I'm from the Astra-Sport forum and drive a Astra coupe turbo myself. Thorney could you tell me a bit more about the cooling issues with the vx220 turbo?, is the intercooler too small?.

In short yes. On the Astras the engine is way up front, right in the airflow so the standard intercooler and rad are enough (although I think Courtenay recommend a bigger IC?)

In standard output the VXT lump is fine for 200bhp (and a bit more) but situate where it is it doesn't get enough, or more importantly cool enough airflow so anything more than 220bhp+ and you start to get heat problems. Intake temps get too high and ECU backs off to avoid failure.

Due to placement of engine there is no way you can get a big enough IC in to compensate so only real solutions are water injection and ideally a charge cooler - which is what AmD have done.

[Man-Chun]

I see, I know courtney fit a cooler running thermostat and cooler running Iridium spark plugs. Both will help reduce engine running temps. Give you guys a bit more headroom to play with on track .

[Timbo]

Thorney, do you think what Man-Chun has suggested will make any difference?

[Man-Chun]

I'm not sure what engien temps you run at normally, but on the coupe the car runs about 86 degrees C on normal running with the cooler running thermostat this is dropped to 75 degrees C. The iridium plugs are designed to operate at lower temps. With just the spark plugs a member with a Astra coupe turbo noticed his engine water temp drop from 86 degrees C to 82 degrees C.