48 replies to this topic

[Ferguson]

Coopa and JamesGray both get a gold star from the honorary engineer's society.

[Crimson_Killa]

The shear strength of the 5 bolts combined will make the strength of the spigot ring, or those tabs, irrelevant IMO.

I just can't see it being a problem, esp. on a lightweight car.

that was my inosent thinking, I didnt expect to get

My argument is, if Spigot Rings are dangerous then why are they leagal / sold / exist.

i would have thought that all it does is transfer the lateral movement that isnt absorbed by the five big bolts and moves it to the hub? am i wrong there?

Oh and not all of us earn enough to spend £1000's on the car, just because a car costs £10,000's doesnt mean i dont have money sence and like to save a little money here and there.

[coopa]

Coopa and JamesGray both get a gold star from the honorary engineer's society.

lol surely it would only be honorary if we weren't engineers?

[Winstar]

I think this may be of some use here Clicky

[Ferguson]

Coopa and JamesGray both get a gold star from the honorary engineer's society.

lol surely it would only be honorary if we weren't engineers?

Oh, so I'm not the only freak? You only get honorary stars because you weren't 100% correct. Unless you forgot to torque the bolts, shear strength doesn't have much to do with it.

And I'm not trying to heat things up, I'm just trying to save the tarnished reputation of the lowly spigot ring. What a great name, by the way. We just call them "centering rings" in North America. Imagine that! Spigot. Wonderful.



By the way, all those pesky American Elise drivers on Elisetalk are running around tracks with non-hubcentric TD wheels. So far no carnage, but I only offer this as anecdotal information.

"Watch out Bobby, your wheels are going to fall off"



Personally, I'd rather buy hubcentric wheels just for a bit less fumbling around.

Edited by Ferguson, 02 March 2007 - 10:43 PM.

[Tony_M]

I bet these are track safe

<<CLICKY>>

Bit of a blast from the past, but not everyone will have seen them...

[Thorney]

If its any consolation, the Speedline wheels use spigot rings and whilst we've had no failures of any kind I still don't want to race with them so we are changing to TD wheels. I'm not saying that these things are lethal specials but from a supplier point of view I have to go with what the manufacturer tells me and they're pretty unequivocal about it.

[P40L VX]

John, haven't yu been using spigots for ages then....? You're are not a Sunday driver and you haven't had any probs in the 2ish years you've been using them on track days, roads and races etc... Why the sudden change now on your car and after you have fitted new hubs and wheels etc to the race cars....?

Edited by Troilism, 03 March 2007 - 01:45 AM.

[Thorney]

Well they've not been 'problem free' as such. We've bent a couple and lost a couple and had a couple literally weld themselves into the wheel, nothing too dramatic but does show the relative stress they undergo. The Speedline ones are steel too (not sure what the TD ones are made of) so if we can give them a hammering I'd rather err on side of caution. There are other reasons of course not really pertinant to owners, the fact that changing wheels can be a pita if you drop the spiggot ring and have to faff to find it again (important when you're swapping out wheels regularly) the fact we sell the TD wheel does make it a bit odd we don't race with them of course (valid reason for TMS but hardly valid for the owner) but the main reason is that wheel/hubs etc etc are rotational and the fewer parts you can have in the marriage the less likely there will be an issue in those parts. Finally the TD ones give more clearence to the AP calipers (only really valid for my car at mo as class A cars are benned from using Ap's) and the fact that the ET is perfect for the car (the Speedlines are 35 front). That enough?

[Crimson_Killa]

If its any consolation, the Speedline wheels use spigot rings and whilst we've had no failures of any kind I still don't want to race with them so we are changing to TD wheels. I'm not saying that these things are lethal specials but from a supplier point of view I have to go with what the manufacturer tells me and they're pretty unequivocal about it.

But are they talking about the "light" track day user ie 1 or 2 a year or a racer like TMS is intending on using them for?

sorry a pedantic question, i will just leave it with whoever wants to buy these then its up to them, im thinking about it but obviously the spigot will be a concideration before i commit to anything.

[VIX]

There are other reasons of course not really pertinant to owners, the fact that changing wheels can be a pita if you drop the spiggot ring and have to faff to find it again (important when you're swapping out wheels regularly) the fact we sell the TD wheel does make it a bit odd we don't race with them of course (valid reason for TMS but hardly valid for the owner) but the main reason is that wheel/hubs etc etc are rotational and the fewer parts you can have in the marriage the less likely there will be an issue in those parts. Finally the TD ones give more clearence to the AP calipers (only really valid for my car at mo as class A cars are benned from using Ap's) and the fact that the ET is perfect for the car (the Speedlines are 35 front).

I'm confused now. Doesn't this suggest that the TMS TD wheels use spiggot rings, which they don't? Or they do and I haven't noticed?

[P11 COV]

I am not an engineer nor a mechanic I would simply rather fit something that was designed for the car simple as that.

I am not buying either so really don't give a flying fcuk what anyone buys.

I am glad we have such knowledgable people on the forum but when the supplier of the wheels says they shouldn't be used on a track...

Baa Baa Baa Baa

Well the VX is full of stuff not designed for the car specifically...mirrors, stalks, brakes even the speedline VXR wheels. Tuning companies fit loads of stuff not specifically designed for the car. The VX engine wasn't designed for the car!!

Even Vauxhall don't believe the majority of the parts on the VX are fit for track work hence thier refusal to honour warranty claims when a car has been on track including (but by no means all) engine mounts (too weak for the car) suspension bushes, steering rack, ball joints and so on.

Some people just do not have common sense when it comes to money Things are cheap for a reason.!!

More often than not because the person selling is out to make a quick buck and the world is full of people with more money than common sense.

Edited by P11 COV, 03 March 2007 - 03:27 AM.

[Thorney]

The TMS TD wheels do not require spiggot rings, they are special cast to fit the car with VX220 ET's. I make no recommendation as to whether spiggot TD wheels are 'safe' or 'unsafe' for track work. In all liklehood (considering the lightness of the VX220) I doubt you'll have many problems, however at the same time the actual supplier says they're not recommended for track use and seeing as they sell them I'd have thought their opinion had some weight. My own experience (and this is hard trackuse here so bare that in mind) is that spiggot requiring Speedlines (which maybe better or worse than TD, who knows) are not worth the trouble or peace of mind for me personally. I can't make that decision for others. Speaking as a supplier (be it Mike Woods or TMS) if someone rang up and ordered these wheels from us we would be legally bound to advise the buyer that the manufacturer does not recommend them for track use, at that point the decision is down to the owner. I'm not trying to encourage or discourage buying any wheels, just want to make sure that whatever decision people make is based on all the facts.

[NickB787]

I know I am stepping on your toes with this information about where people can get very similar wheels to the ones you sell but at a cheaper price. I also know that they are not designed with the VX220 specifically. I also know that they require spigot rings but so does everybody else. I am not a racing driver using these in races, I am a driver who uses them on the road with the occasional track day (occasional track day). If the wheels are correctly fitted and the correct torque applied when fitting them, they are fine. If not, TD would say this wheel only fits this hub and must not be fitted to any other hub. You are running a business John, I am trying to save some money for myself and possibly other people, if other people are interested they can/should research the issue and decide for themselves. My job as a professional pilot is all about safety I will not compromise my safety or any other person for any amount of money, not only in flying or all other aspect of my life.

[Thorney]

Nick, I dont see it as treading on toes at all and agree that sharing information of cost effective parts is a valuable thing. My only suggestion is that people are aware of any and all aspects of their choices thats all.

I can't have a comment on the TD wheels that need spigots....how can I, I've never used them but as we agreed via PM if the supplier themselves states a useage restriction then we must share that. At that point it simply becomes a choice for the purchaser - perfect.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone buying any wheel, but to have information direct from the supplier that suggests a useage may not be recommended has to be shared, surely you agree with that? If that information leads to debate about whehter they are being nanny or not is great, it becomes a decision for the buyer.

If the wheels are correctly fitted and the correct torque applied when fitting them, they are fine.

You see you can't say that as a point of fact, its your opinion (and I've no doubt is probably right) and you are of course entitled to your opinion. The FACT of these wheels are is that they are sold as road wheels, TD don't anticipate any issues but they don't recommend them for track use. How you interpret that information is opinion.

[VIX]

You see you can't say that as a point of fact, its your opinion (and I've no doubt is probably right) and you are of course entitled to your opinion. The FACT of these wheels are is that they are sold as road wheels, TD don't anticipate any issues but they don't recommend them for track use. How you interpret that information is opinion.

Still confused here JT! Are the TMS TD wheels also not recommended for track use?

[Thorney]

Vix......(and anyone else) The TD 1.2 wheels that TMS supply ARE perfectly suitable for track day use. We'll even use them on the race cars (which will get a lot more abuse). TD say only non spigot ringed wheels should be used on track....thats not to say they expect problems just that they do not recommend spigot rings for any track work. Hence I spent the money to get our VX220 moulds made up.

[VIX]

John, Thanks for clearing this up. I had no doubt in my mind about this until the above posts which introduced - at least to me - an element of ambiguity and confusion! Steve

[ianrm]

Wheels only £410 pounds versus £729 pounds ( plus £25 delivery ) . Whereas with the tyre package, £888 with R888s total all in, against £729 wheels plus £550 tyres, plus fitting plus delivery, circa £1300 [/quote] TMS TD Pro 1.2 price is £565 plus delivery @ £25

[siztenboots]

Wheels only
£410 pounds versus £729 pounds ( plus £25 delivery ) .

Whereas with the tyre package,
£888 with R888s total all in, against £729 wheels plus £550 tyres, plus fitting plus delivery, circa £1300


TMS TD Pro 1.2 price is £565 plus delivery @ £25

Ian, I do not disagree with your figures and whilst that might have been the promotional offer price for a limited period of February, the comparitive prices used were taken from here ; http://www.thorneymo...els_Tyres.shtml

Edited by siztenboots, 04 March 2007 - 05:04 PM.