44 replies to this topic

[Thorney]

Cost me £3.30 for a switch and £2.99 for some wire.

[Ricky2772]

ABS on the N/A cars is the biggest rip-off....money spent and weight added for close to zero benefits. and don't start me on the ABS recall..... abs is the SAME as before, so I complain, stating thet they either sent an old version or a defective new unit, but no, they tell me it was the "upgraded" version... they try the car and say, oh, its normal....WTF is normal in an ABS that stays ON AND ON AND ON AND ON for seconds on end, up until the car is not moving anymore and the buzzing is still on!! basically I now have to swallow the fact that my speedster, 33K euros worth of car, opel flagship, has a worse ABS system than a fiat Punto.... how cool is that!?!? I'm sorely tempted to rip all the abs system off and send it back to Opel, asking for a refund for the useless parts. please somebody tell me how to do it, and I will...

[cheeky_chops]

I YOU can take the fuse out for the track and it transforms the car. Costs nothing too which makes a nice change. Disables the speedo aswell on n/a's though

Coming into the hairpins at Bedford, i found the abs coming on and lasting ages clickity click click

If i take the fuse out and cut the power to the ABS and dash, will the rev counter work?? I presume not.....

[exjagman]

sounds like the ABS is quite shite then.... I won't ask about the air bag

[JimH]

i)Rockstar had little to do with setting this car up

In Rockstar's defence he never claimed to have had anything to do with the development of the VX. He did, however, describe a very plausible senario whereby a big car company would strong arm a smaller company into developing an ABS system for a low volume car being made by the aforementioned big car company. The smaller company would then do the job in the shortest possible time by reusing a system from a broadly similar car which wasn't quite what was needed.

At no time did he say that was what happened in the case of the VX.

[Ringer]

The smaller company would then do the job in the shortest possible time by reusing a system from a broadly similar car which wasn't quite what was needed.

I can assure you that this was definately not the case in the ABS for the Opel Speedster / VX220!

[JimH]

I wasn't suggesting that it was. I was only pointing out that certain comments had been incorrectly attributed to someone.

[Purebob]

I think the ABS on the VX could be better but is excellent. Anyone who attended the palmersport day would surely attest to the massively increased control afforded when manoeuvering fast under braking. And in real life the ABS helped me twice - once when two sheep appeared in a dip on the A537 in the wet and it alloed me to brake and steer between them *gulp!* and again when a woman in a civic decided she's sat at a side road junction waiting to join the main carriageway long enough and just pulled out in front of me. Again I was able to rake and steer parallel to her without losing control and skidding. Yes, if I'd been crawling along at 15 mph allowing for sheep and idiots I wouldn't of needed ABS but I wasn't so I did The ABS cuts in when brakes are applied over a crest - as if the reduction in weight confuses it, but I wouldn't be without it. Apart from the looks and better road handling, ABS & airbag were major reasons for m choosing a VX over an elise.

[Thorney]

IMO the ABS is good under certain circumstances. Smooth surface it does its job well, but on bumpy roads, manhole covers etc it kicks in too early and stays on too long. The Palmersport demo was perfect to show it off, try that on a bumpy surface and whilst you will still be allowed to steer I reckon over stopping distance would be 20% more than locking the feckers up

[Bengie]

My 2p worth: On a smooth road or track the upgraded system works very well... At Silverstone, it was never an issue, unless I snatched the brakes. I think a lot of this is down to the front end being very light, and it being easy to lock them before the weight has transferred. On a bumpy road, like a lot of them round here, it's not brilliant... Again, I think it's down to the front end lightness. I think the ABS fitted to my Astra was far better - in that it fast a faster pulse, and didn't seem to rob the car of much stopping power whilst it was doing it's stuff - but then it was usually modulating the braking force to a lightly loaded rear wheel (from what I could feel), and therefore not affecting the whole braking effort by much. I still feel that it doesn't let go quickly enough - feels a bit like the older traction control systems that cut power for too long - but we know it's not the most up todate Bosch 5.3 system fitted (as was on the Astra), so what more can we expect.

[cheeky_chops]

I can assure you that this was definately not the case in the ABS for the Opel Speedster / VX220!

be nice if Mr "Ringer" could let us know his involvement?? Or Miss!!

Edited by cheeky_chops, 24 November 2003 - 10:48 AM.

[speedyK]

ABS & airbag were major reasons for m choosing a VX over an elise.

For me too.

I've wondered if it being light at the front is a reason for some of the difficulties, but then F1 cars are lighter still and they stop pretty well! I know they have far more advanced braking systems, but light weight can't really be a big factor if you consider this.

[exjagman]

so better off with then without most of the time.... it strikes me that if you are fitting ABS to a performance car, it should work even better than on an ordinary car. At the same time, from a low volume manufacturing point of view I can fully appreciate the development costs involved. The car is outstanding value for what it does, so i'm not complaining. It's good to know what to expect from it from your input. thanks guys cheers

[Ringer]

I can assure you that this was definately not the case in the ABS for the Opel Speedster / VX220!

be nice if Mr "Ringer" could let us know his involvement?? Or Miss!!

That's MR, thanks very much!

I currently work in one of the departments that was responsible for the Speedster / VX ABS. It was pretty much done when I arrived here from another office in the US.

I dug up and read Rockstar's comments about the ABS and I'm not sure I agree with his perspective. Sure the unit is the "same one" as the Esprit, it's also the "same one" as the Diablo and the Opel Vectra. All the "EBC430EV" unit...

However with each vehicle application, certain hydraulic parts are always correctly sized to the vehicle application, and the software that controls the ABS operation is completely recalibrated for the application. Furthermore, with each successive project, the control software is also updated with the latest logic and features.
To incinuate that the Speedster/VX was dragged over from the Esprit with minimal change is rediculous.


He does have a good point in general though, that most likely the only reason the company ever agreed to do such a low volume project was that it was associated with other high volume business. (Opel Vectra). Sometimes low volume business will get quoted in hopes of "sweetening" a high volume business quote, or for other reasons.

For certain with a low volume project such as this there are a lot of limitations on the development of a system on the car like the ABS... So many factors are a hinderance such as small development budget by the ABS supplier, or even of the manufacturer itself, reduced development time in some cases, limited numbers of vehicles available during the development phase, etc etc. Anytime you are working on a system like ABS, you can always keep improving it with more time - but eventually the manufacturer wants the supplier to stop tweaking and start supplying !

I've never driven a Speedster/VX, so I can't really comment on any specific problems with the ABS. Nor do I know anything about the ABS change which happened before I got here. But I can say that one of the key engineers for the Speedster/VX ABS was an Elise driver.... I talk to him sometime and try to find out more.

An aside - any of you driven both Elises and Speedster/VX's ? I've driven a MkI Elise and there was so little room (I'm 1.93m / 6'4" tall and have disproportionally long legs on top of that) that I literally couldn't steer when in 1st or 2nd gear (was a RHD car). Thank goodness it was in Sweden so I could just drive in 3rd and up gears and just let the wheels spin in the snow. I later sat in a MkII and had the same space problem so didn't even bother trying to drive it. Does the Speedster/VX have the same tightness, or does it have a little more room?

[mags993tt]

fwiw had the original abs unit on n/a and i would best describe it as a dangerous joke on anything but the smoothest road. apart from the abs action being lousy and increasing stopping distance by large amounts over a locked up scenario a lot of people (including myself on one occasion) experienced no brakes at all with the dead or stiff pedal syndrome....not good.... having had the upgrade i found the difference phenomenal - no more surprise abs engagements and better stopping distances with it engaged. in fact the difference was so vast i almost thought the brakes HAD become world class until i went for a track passenger ride in a mates 964 (911) RS. i felt like i was standing on the vertical bit of the footwell when he put the anchors on and had chest bruising from the 4 point seat belts. all this with normal street rubber, oem discs/pads and it did have abs but never engaged once. one word sums it up AMAZING. why can't they do this for the VX? surely that's the best safety device one can have...?

[Bengie]

As I said above, a lot of it is down to the way in which you apply 'em. We've only got skinny front tyres, and it doesn't take much to overload them. If you are progressive with your pedal application, then you can summon up incredible stopping power. If you just stamp on the pedal with abandon, then the ABS will think it's christmas and have a party... What size tyres has your mate's 964 got on the front? Maybe there is more dive in the front suspension that makes it feel like there is more stopping going on? I know that I can stop quick enough to cause Step-mother to end up nearly in the passenger foot well (Her legs aren't long enough to reach the foot rest) *grin*. That'll do me for the moment

[mags993tt]

What size tyres has your mate's 964 got on the front? Maybe there is more dive in the front suspension that makes it feel like there is more stopping going on?

his fronts are standard size - he's bunked off the desk so i'll guess they're 215's for now but will edit if i find out different.

so agreed, they are considerably wider than VX's, but factor in the RS must weigh at least an extra couple of hundred kilos and probably more - which i guess helps with initally not locking up if you're not too gentle with the brake pedal as you say but then shld actually make it more diffcult to sustain a higher G stop.

the RS has no dive, actually felt like it had no suspension at all come to think of it .

[Bengie]

I've always wondered about weight not helping stopping... Obviously, with more weight (or rather mass) there is more energy to dissipate, but the higher the mass, the bigger the normal that is combining with the co-efficient of friction, therefore more ulimate friction. I suppose that if 'mass' in both of these bits is of the same scale (i.e. not a power thing - and I'm pretty sure it isn't), then it will ccancel out and not make any difference. *shrug* I don't know! cheers - have a good weekend

[Jase_MK]

I've always wondered about weight not helping stopping...

Obviously, with more weight (or rather mass) there is more energy to dissipate, but the higher the mass, the bigger the normal that is combining with the co-efficient of friction, therefore more ulimate friction.

I suppose that if 'mass' in both of these bits is of the same scale (i.e. not a power thing - and I'm pretty sure it isn't), then it will ccancel out and not make any difference.

*shrug* I don't know!

cheers - have a good weekend

I think increased mass has a bigger effect on your momentum than the grip of your tyres. Sticking a 100kg weight (or me) in your car will perhaps increase the friction of the tyres a bit but will increase your momentum relatively more and so increase your stopping distance. Is that what you mean?

[Thorney]

I had a 964 (not an RS sadly) and the first mod you did was sling a bag of cement in the front to stop the front lifting and Porsche make the best brakes in the business so that counts for a lot. Mind you, I was at Essen yesterday (motorshow) and talk on the porker stands was that GT2/GT3 owners were complaining about the ceramic disks saying they were crap and Porsche are replacing with cast on a as demanded basis. A mate of mine with a modded RS4 asked me to pick a set up on the cheap as they were being rejected, when I asked why he'd do that as they were being slated he just said "but they look soooooo fecking cool"