59 replies to this topic

[Muncher]

After a significant period now with the ABS turned off for road use I thought I post some feedback on how I've found it. I've had an ABS cut off switch fitted for track use for a couple of years now and up until recently it's always been left turned on for road driving. However for a few months now I've had it turned off all the time on the road in the dry. As standard the ABS setup is pretty abysmal and quite frankly dangerous in many circumstances, I've found that you can't lean on the brakes to anywhere near their full potential without the slightest bump in the road triggering the ABS and leaving you to plough straight on completely unexpectedly. With the ABS turned off for daily use it's given me so much more confidence, knowing if I need to stop in a hurry, I know I can do so without any fuss. It has really given me an appreciation of just how stupidly early the standard system cuts in, all of the stopping power in the brakes is right before the wheels lock up, the ABS simply did not allow me to hit that point with any confidence at all as if you get even slightly near maximum stopping power the ABS would cut in and you'd plough straight on. In dry conditions I can now lean on the brakes until you hear the tyres chirping, even with discs and pads not far off replacement the braking is stunning at that point:D If anyone thinks lock ups could be a problem, well in the past 3 months or so I've only locked all of the wheels on one occasion when I had to stop to avoid something on the road at night, had the ABS been turned on at that point I'm absolutely certain I would have stacked it, no two ways about it. In my opinion the VX never needed ABS to start with and in my experience certainly caused more hairy moments than it prevented. Fitting an ABS cut-off switch has been the best thing I've done to the car and that includes a pretty long list of modifications!

[VIX]

I tend to agree. I turned the ABS off for road use last year when I had Nitrons fitted as the ABS then became not just crapp but positively dangerous. Personally I would like to have a properly working ABS system. I'd hoped that the VXR module might cure it but there's no conclusive evidence yet, at least I'm aware of, that it completely cures the problem.

[Karlosfandango]

Must admit that all the times I've driven without abs I've had absolutely no incidents or hairy moments, the scary moments have all happened with the abs on I tend to leave the abs on for road driving as that little bastard light in the dash gets on my tits. Might give it a go permanantly as I really struggle to see the benefit of the system.

[TonyKL]

If you disable your ABS on the road and have an accident will you be covered by insurance?

[Muncher]

If you disable your ABS on the road and have an accident will you be covered by insurance?

Yes, I've had this confirmed by my Dad who's a Claims Manager at AXA and it's also in line with the Ombudsman's directions to insurers and their previous determinations.

Edited by Muncher, 14 June 2007 - 05:22 PM.

[Crazyfrog (Fab)]

how do you get it done because the dealer wouldnt do it i expect thank

[snoopstah]

If you disable your ABS on the road and have an accident will you be covered by insurance?

Yes, I've had this confirmed by my Dad who's a Claims Manager at AXA and it's also in line with the Ombudsman's directions to insurers and their previous determinations.

I'd strongly recommend people make their own judgement call on that one. I am not a lawyer, so while Muncher's statement may well be strictly true, I would expect any insurance company to fight a claim that could be shown to be partially or totally caused by disabling the ABS (for instance, kid running into the road and the skidmarks show you panic braked, locked up, and were unable to steer around).

You have voluntarily disabled a piece of safety equipment that is fitted to the car as standard and which they have based their insurance ratings on (regardless of your own opinion of how 'safe' the actual ABS equipment is).

Of course, if you have a modification-friendly insurer, you may be able to get them to accept that you have modified the braking system by disabling the ABS. You'd probably have to pay a premium (as with any mod), but you'd remove any room they have to manoveur.

As I say, Muncher could quite likely be legally correct - but unless you know the exact legal precedents for this kind of thing, you could have a tough job proving that if it came down to it.

[d34no]

Whilst i agree in a straight line most muppets can feel when the brakes have locked up, the average joe public may find it difficult to know what to do and react when cornering hard with the brakes on. The main reason for cars having abs is to allow the driver to steer AND turn at the same time. On a track, or when you know what you are doing (as i expect you do muncher) abs is a huge hinderence to getting maximum braking power when entering a corner. However for novices on the track, i think it will help them to corner quicker as it is easier to use trail braking with it on. What I'm trying to say is that there is a lot of talk on here about how the abs is "dangerous", but i think people take this the wrong way when reading stuff like this, i know i certainly did. I actually took it off for my walshy day. AFter walshy called me an idiot he challenged me to do the high speed bend with abs on and with it off. The outcome: I either span or ran wide with it off. And on: perfect tidy corner every time. Yes it does dramatically reduce your stopping distance, but what about that time you come round a country lane corner a little too fast and need to brake hard mid corner, what happens then? I know for an absolute certainty I want to have the abs help me find that balance between turning and slowing down, rather than risk ending up in a hedge. May be a little controversial, but i just wanted to present the other side of the coin.

[woot_uk]

im also not so sure about comments stating abs being unnecessary on a vx. also on a walshy day i recall him stating how he looked into getting abs installed in on his non abs elise. thats certainly one driver who id have thought would have the skill not to need abs at all.

Edited by woot_uk, 14 June 2007 - 08:31 PM.

[snoopstah]

A good ABS setup can help (although I wouldn't say it was necessary - there are very few race cars with ABS installed, compared to, for instance, traction control). The problem is that the VX setup (with the possible exception of the VXR) isn't particularly good. There are also different considerations of what is classed as 'good' depending on whether you're on track or on the road. And also bear in mind that very few tracks are as badly surfaced as the majority of Britain's underfunded road network - and it's typically the bumps on a badly-surfaced bit of road that can cause the ABS to cut in prematurely. (The fact that once it's triggered you can slow down quicker by opening the door and dragging your feet is the second problem )

Edited by snoopstah, 14 June 2007 - 08:37 PM.

[TonyKL]

I was told that the VX abs didn't operate until < 30mph which on track you should have already reduced your speed accordingly (whether this is true or not i've no idea)

[Alex Os]

I would generally agree that its probably safer to leave the ABS switched on when driving on the road................. however, i think once you've experienced the ABS doing its odd 'im-not-going-to-stop' thing when you are doing a bit of late braking into a reasonably tight corner you may consider disabling it. Iv'e had it happen a couple of times and its very disconcerting. Now, when i do have mine switched on i always try to drive assumeing the worst i.e its probably going to take a very long while to stop.

[ronbot]

After a Walshy day yesterday with nearly bald front tyres and silly weather for the second half of the day, I am also considering switching off ABS. During the high speed bend exersize in the morning (dry) the abs defo helps as D34NO has highlighted. However during the pi55ing rain for the timed laps in the afternoon even walshy was surprised when driving my car. As he started braking for the first corner the car hit some standing water, began "ice mode activation" and he overshot the corner by about 50 yards! After my laps I went out as a passenger in a s1 and S2 elise - I couldn't believe how much later they could brake it really was night and day difference. Now I have new front tyres fitted I will see what its like in the wet and then make the decision.

[Guy182]

After a Walshy day yesterday with nearly bald front tyres and silly weather for the second half of the day, I am also considering switching off ABS.

During the high speed bend exersize in the morning (dry) the abs defo helps as D34NO has highlighted.

However during the pi55ing rain for the timed laps in the afternoon even walshy was surprised when driving my car. As he started braking for the first corner the car hit some standing water, began "ice mode activation" and he overshot the corner by about 50 yards!

After my laps I went out as a passenger in a s1 and S2 elise - I couldn't believe how much later they could brake it really was night and day difference.

Now I have new front tyres fitted I will see what its like in the wet and then make the decision.

same here, the left hander doing the trail braking was relatively simple with the ABS on but took alot of practice to do it withthe ABS off, eventually managed it once at 85 with one finger and ABS off.

however on the handling course i kept hitting the brakes and would hardly stop, walshy was watching and said i was hitting ice mode, told me to have a go with ABS disconnected and i was a few seconds quicker and had much better braking.

ideally i feel i could do with more training on how to use the ABS system really

[rik]

My insurer (elephant) has quite broad modification categories. I currently have "brakes - uprated" as one of the mods. Apparently this covers both my better brake pads and the traction control... and I could upgrade them further without notifying them because all you do is check the check-box on the online form when getting a quote... so it could be anything to do with brakes, and they never ask for more information.. likewise, I have "exhaust/manifold non-standard" which means I can change the inlet manifold, exhaust manifold, cat, and back box... all under 1 additional charge

[Dave E]

After changing to 16" fronts it took me about a week before I turned the ABS off for good. I was becoming a nervous wreck never knowing what it was going to do next. I agree that in some circumstances it's better on, but on balance in my experience the pro's far outweigh the cons, as with everything it's a compromise. It's just personal preference, when I finally do a Walshy day I may have a change of mind but for now it's staying off.

[Guy182]

its not so much the ABS kicking in itself, its when it decides to go into the ice mode. im tempted to get a vxr abs unit... jasvxt - are they still avilable cheap ? (obviously the ones that wont work and will fail etc etc )

[chris_uk]

ive had the abs kick in on me on an uneven road going down hill onto a busy road... i sh*t myself and almost slid straight into the traffic.. but i managed to force myself to lift off the pedal and plant it again.. and i stopped in time.. i do not like things like this, and since this is the only car i have driven with ABS, i dont like it. all you guys who have turned the ABS off, did your speedo cut out? coz when i took the fuse out it did.. maybe wiring it up to a switch would stop this.. also can you post pics of where you mounted the switch.

[Guy182]

just disconnect the front nearside ABS sensor the speedo comes off the rear nearside

[chris_uk]

on that guide on this site it tells you to splice into the yellow wire then put a switch on it. do i need to disconnect the abs sensors?