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ABS Permanently Turned Off For Road Use


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#41 chazpowerslide

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 09:38 PM

Been reading this with interest being a bit of a newby. I personally think it's not a case of the ABS being good or bad or weather you are better off without it but it's a case of the soft bit behind the wheel being the weak link (no diss-respect to anyone on here BTW we could all do with upping our game at times) It's already been touched on that by altering your driving style you can make it work for you. If you look at the way you'd do an emergency stop on a motorcycle you can begin to see what you may need to change in your driving style to make the ABS on your VX work for you. Most inexperienced bikers in an emergency stop situation will panic and grab a handfull of front brake locking the front wheel and coming off. The reason for this is that the braking force applied overcomes the friction that the tyre has with the road because the weight of the machine and rider has not had time to transfer forward through the front suspension to the front tyre contact patch loading it. In general the more weight applied to the tyre the better the grip will be. An experienced biker in the same situation will begin to apply the front brake gently and progressivley giving time for the weight to begin transfer to the front tyre. As it does so the brake will be squeezed progressively harder as the weight goes on, the more weight transfer the harder the brake can be used until the point of lockup is approached and the brake backed off slightly to compensate. I have trained this on countless occasions and once mastered the students are staggered by how quickly and safely thay can stop. If you get really good at this you can come to a stop very quickly with the rear wheel dangling about 6" off the road :) It takes practice and a few hairy moments. (I have ROSPA Gold on bikes) The same principal applies to the brakes on the VX (or pretty much any car for that matter ABS equipped or not) in so far that the intital braking should be done progressively and the braking pressure built up as the weight transfers to to load the front tyres. As the tyres are loaded their grip increases and the chance of a prenature lockup triggering the ABS is greatly reduced. Reading the road well can have a great effect not only on where you choose to brake (avoiding areas of low grip like drain covers/white lines and bumps ect) but also how hard you can brake at any given time. The trick is to get used to using the brakes (along with all the other controls) smoothly and progressively to get the best out of them. Pretty much all performance driving/riding (I have Advanced in cars) is centred around getting the rider/driver to ride/drive smoothly, progressively and consistently whilst deploying good hazzard awareness which consists of obsrvation, reading, planning and anticipation skills. The hazzard awareness bit does not just apply to moving targets but the whole environment (road surface, weather roadside furniture ect) and how well you read and plan will have a huge effect on how smoothly you can make good progress and crucially how much time you leave yourself to brake smoothly. On the road in the real world even unpredictable events have an element of predictability to them, things don't "suddenly" happen they develop over time giving you time to react if you are on the ball and seen it early enough. I have come to the VX after 12 years of ownership of various quick Westfields (no ABS or servo assistance and a very raw driving experience) and these are cars that you really have to "drive" if you want to make quick progress, in comaprison the VX is super user friendly. The key to driving the Westy quickly was smoothness and paying particular attention to the road surface (particularly if it was bumpy) In the Westy it was fairly easy to lock the fronts is you kept stabbing at the brakes but progressive application would alomst stand the thing on it's nose, once the weight had gone on the fronts the brakes were awesomly powerfull (4 pots and grooved non vented 365mm discs) Before I consider switching off the ABS I want to see for myself if it can be managed with driver technique and I'd want it in writing from my insurance company confirming that I'd still be covered. For the record I have not had any issues with my ABS yet. Chaz.

Edited by chazpowerslide, 05 December 2011 - 09:39 PM.


#42 P11 COV

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 09:53 PM

Its not just about the ABS functioning well or not. When on track if you are moving very quickly from accelerating to braking the brake pedal goes solid and you need to come off the brake and back on again to make it work.This makes me very tentative about braking late for corners. This never happens with the ABS switched off. I have never had this happen on the road so do tend to have it switched on on the road- when I remember to!!!

#43 jules_s

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 10:06 PM

Before I consider switching off the ABS I want to see for myself if it can be managed with driver technique and I'd want it in writing from my insurance company confirming that I'd still be covered.
For the record I have not had any issues with my ABS yet.

Chaz.


A fair post.

I'll wager you end up turning the ABS off when you've had time to assess it.

It's all well and good saying 'read the road' ....'don't jab the brakes' etc

But the first time you approach a roundabout looking right for cars entering the roundabout....and you straight line the roundabout in ice mode

You'll know ;)

#44 wantsum

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 10:30 PM


Before I consider switching off the ABS I want to see for myself if it can be managed with driver technique and I'd want it in writing from my insurance company confirming that I'd still be covered.
For the record I have not had any issues with my ABS yet.

Chaz.


A fair post.

I'll wager you end up turning the ABS off when you've had time to assess it.

It's all well and good saying 'read the road' ....'don't jab the brakes' etc

But the first time you approach a roundabout looking right for cars entering the roundabout....and you straight line the roundabout in ice mode

You'll know ;)


Been there a couple of times, when I apply the brakes I want to stop!!!
not SKATE :blink:

#45 MrSimba

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:15 AM

lots of stuff


Well been driving VX's or similar for 6 years so guess I've got a little experience as to how the brake should or should not feel & as I stated never had a problem at all with the ABS whilst on std 17's BUT the ABS controller is throwing a hissy fit when having to compute now with wide sticky rubber, uprated suspension & much better pads & discs than oem.

It's not a question about modulating your braking or technique - you come off boost and touch (& note I said touch and not put it through the floor!) the pedal its rock solid with literally nothing happening! :blink:

In fact you know it's going to happen so have already altered your technique by initially quickly feeling it the pedal's reaction and backing off to re-apply instantly, but a solution would certainly be better than 'brake lottery'!

#46 2.2_na

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:27 AM

never had a problem at all with the ABS


:yeahthat:

I actually used mine properly last week (when some 'idiot' tried to overtake me in between speed humps) I'm glad the ABS worked!

#47 14500rpm

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:03 AM

The standard ABS is shocking to be honest, and I'm surprised its not been subject to a recall. I almost went into the back of my mates Elise because of it, wasn't going quick at the time, just breaking on a down slope to join a roundabout, another time the ABS kicked in whilst gently braking on a poor road surface coming up to a give way. The car ended up over shooting the turning but luckily nothing was coming along the road at the time, would have been a nice T-Bone if there had. I've no confidence in the ABS, its always in the back of my mind that its going to do something stupid and put me in a bad situation, I'm umming and ahh-ing between a Lotus ABS module and disabling it on a switch at the moment. Worth mentioning that I think under the new MOT rules if the car came with ABS then it needs to be working for the test.

#48 techieboy

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:05 AM

Worth mentioning that I think under the new MOT rules if the car came with ABS then it needs to be working for the test.


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#49 slindborg

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:20 AM

I spoke to my friend who is an MOT tester etc. To 'remove' the ABS you have to remove EVERYTHING to do with it, even the wheel speed sensors regardless of the ECU's need to have the speed signal. Most testers wont care about sensors being left on for speed readings though (but then speedo reading isnt actually tested :lol: )

#50 davemate

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 11:45 AM

i swapped to a 4 channel abs unit from lotus. it is great. just use that.

#51 14500rpm

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 12:42 PM

i swapped to a 4 channel abs unit from lotus. it is great. just use that.


I think this is probably the way forward, if you disabled the ABS and had an accident (declared to the insurance or not) then knuckle scrapers from miles around would be queuing up to wail 'won't somebody think of the children'.

#52 snotvomit

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 12:51 PM

Maybe it's just an issue with the 2 channel ABS on standard VX. Mine is a VXR which has 4 channel if I remember right. I have never had an ABS incident - on track or road. I drove the thing all last winter (except when there was too much snow) and was on track in November and the track was quite wet during part of the day. The ABS has only ever cut in once and that was when I was going along a road that unexpectedly ran out. There was loads of dust and sand on the last stretch of the road terminated in an 8 inch kerb and I was so hard on the brakes that it hurt my ankle. I would definitely have locked the wheels if not for the ABS. Other than that, the ABS has never cut in during 14 months of ownership. Can anyone confirm that this is a 2 channel issue? Is it a big job to go up to 4 channel ABS?

#53 Duncan_F

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:07 PM

I personally think it's not a case of the ABS being good or bad


For the record I have not had any issues with my ABS yet.


Sorry, but until you've experienced driving quickly, braking hard, hitting a small bump in the road, had the ABS trigger, the pedal go solid and had that feeling that you're not actually going to stop before you smash into something, I can't take anything you say seriously when it comes to talking about the ABS in the VX.

Your post read very much like a generalisation of how to drive using ABS but the unit is utter garbage in the VX220 and it's safer to just disconnect it, I have. I've had a switch fitted to do just that.

There has been a couple of occasions where I've locked up but then you just use cadence braking, which is still miles safer than the VX ABS.

#54 TheRealVXed

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:10 PM

Had mine off at Brands Hatch yesterday in the damp as the ABS kept triggering at the meerest suggestion of slowing down. No amount of browning my underpants seemed to make this go away.... So i popped into the pits, switched it off. Plus without the ABS trail braking into the corners is so much more exciting (and just proves you can brake harder without the ABS on as it doesn't lock the rears to make this happen just puts more weight onto the front. With the ABS on towards lock up of the wheels it is constantly reducing and re-applying the brakes meaning less weight is constantly on the front with the ABS on) given that the back end goes lighter more easily. Get it sliding before the apex, back on the power to sit the back end down and you can keep the hammer down all the way through the second half of the corner :D I have the ABS on on the road though. As others have said, once it triggers just press harder. It still slows you down almost as quickly! I rememebr doing an ABS accident avoidence course a couple of years ago and they make you smash the brake pedal to envoke ABS but still slow down quickly. It is very effective but doens't work unless you push really hard the whole time. Same goes for the VX. just push through the resistance and it stops you just as fast chinky chinky

#55 techieboy

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:12 PM

Can anyone confirm that this is a 2 channel issue?

Is it a big job to go up to 4 channel ABS?


The so called "ice mode" is a 2 channel issue. The hard pedal syndrome is also mostly a 2-channel issue although I've had it to a much lesser degree with the 4-channel controller on track once.

Swapping them is a case of unbolting one and replacing with the other. 5 minutes max.

#56 MellowYellow

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:20 PM

With over 25 years of driving/riding experience behind me I have to say that I always drive/ride to the conditions be it on track or on the road, what I initially found with the ABS on the VX though did make me wonder which is the way forward for everyday use. I personally wouldn't push the VX as far on the road as I do on the track so even though I have fitted a switch to turn it off it stays on for the road just in case the unthinkable happens and the insurance were to get involved, that's not to say that I haven't experienced the "ice mode" without much provocation :( . Even travelling at the posted speed limit and slowing gradually to a junction I have had it come into operation on a patch of gravel which made my ar*e take a mouthful of underpants, on track, before I fitted the switch, it was nigh on impossible to pick a constant braking point around Oulton Park because of the way it was operating in the greasy conditions. However on my third session I got lucky (depending how you look at it) when I took a lot of curb and the ABS light came on, I initially backed off but then I realised that the braking had been transformed, I could brake later and actually feel how much grip was there without the ABS interfering, needless to say every session after that I was trying (and generally succeeding) in replicating the manoeuvre that caused the fault on the ABS (found out afterwards that it was a loose arch liner that had put pressure on the wiring, buggered the liner up though because it rubbed through on the tyre thumbsdown ). I'm happy with the car now but if I were to feel the need to change anything (if I were to drive the car all year round in any weather) I would go for the four channel (Lotus/VXR) set up rather than just turn it off (insurance reasons), the two channel is far to agricultural for the car especially if you brake and trail the throttle, it actually reminds me of the old belt driven Series2 RS Turbo ABS, now that could get through underpants in a hurry when it kicked in :o

#57 hutchy

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:05 PM

Devil's advocate.... how are MOT tester checking ABS? Obviously if ABS light is on it's fail time but if someone unscrupulous removed the bulb, how would they know? Do they have a specific testing method?

#58 Duncan_F

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:10 PM

Devil's advocate.... how are MOT tester checking ABS? Obviously if ABS light is on it's fail time but if someone unscrupulous removed the bulb, how would they know? Do they have a specific testing method?

With mine I have a switch fitted so I can turn it on or off whenever I want. Come MOT time I just flick the switch and turn it on.

#59 techieboy

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:18 PM

Devil's advocate.... how are MOT tester checking ABS? Obviously if ABS light is on it's fail time but if someone unscrupulous removed the bulb, how would they know? Do they have a specific testing method?


They're meant to check the tell tale light illuminates during startup.

I'm also guessing that going on that article I posted, they're maybe also doing a visual check under the bonnet for any car that the MOT system says should have ABS.

#60 slindborg

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 08:27 PM

Also the brake pedal will do its ABS thang on the brake test too.... Still fancy a crack at seeing if the 4channel software can be taken off and loaded into a 2chan unit to give the same result.




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