28 replies to this topic

[cnrandall]

Having stretched the stock wet sump to its limits this year my major winter project is to dry sump the engine in my Europa. The only kit on the market and readily available is the one from Pace and that doesn't tick the right boxes for me so I've decided to go ahead and design/build my own setup. The criteria I have laid out are: 1) It must be light 2) It must be compact and I don't want to add complexity to the engine bay which is already busy 3) It must be reliable 4) It must allow the removal of the crank ladder and act as a structural component in the ladder's absence So... I have ordered a pump from Dailey Engineering in the states which is now in my hands. It's a twin scavenge pump with the addition of an oil/air separator which allows me to reduce the volume of the tank from 10 litres down to 5 or 6 meaning less space to find in the engine bay and less weight. I've decided to stick with the stock pressure pump which has performed faultlessly all year on the basis that, if it ain't broke... Here is a pic of the pump and also the hardware for the pulley. This morning we machined an adaptor to mount the pulley to the engine and pics of that here too, along with the pump. I will update this thread as we go...

Edited by cnrandall, 16 December 2009 - 04:17 PM.

[Duncan VXR]

Good work Chris, look forward to seeing the output think you have missed the other pic out

[cnrandall]

I seem to have used up all my attachment space... how do I mend this?!

[cnrandall]

another

[techieboy]

I seem to have used up all my attachment space... how do I mend this?!

You can either upload your pics to the "Gallery" (linked to at the top of the page) and use the usual linking method or do as most of us do and host them on Photobucket (or the photo hosting site of your choice). The attachment functionality here is only slightly better than useless, I'm afraid.

[The Batman]

register with photobucket or equivalent will be reading with interest

[Duncan VXR]

Are you not tempted to underdrive the bottom pulley Chris? Or make one from alloy to save a bit of weight?

[techieboy]

Chris, what do you think about the Accusump setups? After starving my previous engine at Silverstone, I'm paranoid about having enough oil in the engine (and as a couple of us have discovered the Z22SE dipstick system isn't particularly accurate) and wondered whether they were a worthwhile addition to the arsenal.

[cnrandall]

Are you not tempted to underdrive the bottom pulley Chris? Or make one from alloy to save a bit of weight?

From all the research I did ref balancing I definitely won't be using anything other than the stock pully/crank damper. I was tempted to make a pulley setup to increase the length of the cam belt and include the pump that way but it complicates things a fair bit. Only downside of doing it the way I am is that the belt is exposed to track debris coming up through the wheel arch.

[cnrandall]

Chris, what do you think about the Accusump setups? After starving my previous engine at Silverstone, I'm paranoid about having enough oil in the engine (and as a couple of us have discovered the Z22SE dipstick system isn't particularly accurate) and wondered whether they were a worthwhile addition to the arsenal.

Accusumps are a sticking plaster over a problem. Not a bad idea but not a great solution either and I certainly wouldn't use one instead of a dry sump.

[sc-009]

I'd not read anything here before heading home this evening. Strangly, I was thinking about dry sumps on the train. Do you think there's any opportunity/advantage in trying to lower the engine a bit?

[cnrandall]

I'd not read anything here before heading home this evening. Strangly, I was thinking about dry sumps on the train.

Do you think there's any opportunity/advantage in trying to lower the engine a bit?

yes, and I plan to lower it once I've proven the sump :-)

[cnrandall]

I'd not read anything here before heading home this evening. Strangly, I was thinking about dry sumps on the train.

Do you think there's any opportunity/advantage in trying to lower the engine a bit?

yes, and I plan to lower it once I've proven the sump :-)

[Cookies220]

Excuse my ignorance, but what are the benefits of a dry sump over a wet one and how do they work (please don't say one is dry, the other is wet )

[Bargi]

good description here http://auto.howstuff...question331.htm

In short, unless you're going to be doing some proper racing with enough G's to push your oil around there's not gonna be much of an advantage changing to one.

Excuse my ignorance, but what are the benefits of a dry sump over a wet one and how do they work (please don't say one is dry, the other is wet )

[slindborg]

you can gain a little extra power from one too as you are keeping the crank case in a vaccum which helps reduce pumping losses (but you do have to 'power' the pump, kinda like an S/C). So if you are chasing every last figure it can help, allbeit a funking expensive way to do it. I didnt think about just using a scavenger and keep the std pump... But then if you arent going above 7.5K on the XE/LET that often its not a problem as the impellor caivtates much above that.

[steveboyslim]

Having stretched the stock wet sump to its limits this year my major winter project is to dry sump the engine in my Europa. The only kit on the market and readily available is the one from Pace and that doesn't tick the right boxes for me so I've decided to go ahead and design/build my own setup. The criteria I have laid out are:

1) It must be light
2) It must be compact and I don't want to add complexity to the engine bay which is already busy
3) It must be reliable
4) It must allow the removal of the crank ladder and act as a structural component in the ladder's absence

So... I have ordered a pump from Dailey Engineering in the states which is now in my hands. It's a twin scavenge pump with the addition of an oil/air separator which allows me to reduce the volume of the tank from 10 litres down to 5 or 6 meaning less space to find in the engine bay and less weight. I've decided to stick with the stock pressure pump which has performed faultlessly all year on the basis that, if it ain't broke...

Here is a pic of the pump and also the hardware for the pulley. This morning we machined an adaptor to mount the pulley to the engine and pics of that here too, along with the pump. I will update this thread as we go...

I like the look of that Dailey engineering products, but what put you off the Pace or Titan drysump kits ?
I have used both with good results, one in a vx the other in a astra.
Are you going to use the standard sump pan or modify ?
Not sure how the standard oil pump gears will stand up to sustained high rpm, not quite the same but the Ford zetec pump gears(similar style) fail at 7800 rpm or there abouts, although thought to be a harmonic problem.

Steve

[cnrandall]

The pan on the pace system doesn't tie into the main caps so doesn't fit my criteria. Also, I'm not convinced of the quality, doesn't even have swaged ends on the pipes out of the bottom of the pan. I've not seen the Titan one though... any idea where I can get some pics?

[techieboy]

Only decent sized pic I could find is this one of Titan's kit. I think it's the right one but it does look different to the pic on their website (and both look hugely different to the regular setup).

[cnrandall]

That pan looks very similar to the Pace one and doesn't tie in the bearing caps. Also, I really don't like those push-fit hose connectors, especially considering the lack of swaged ends. Basically those are both budget dry sump kits, which is fine, but I don't see the point in using them for my application... If I'm going to do it, i'll do it properly.