30 replies to this topic

[daz32]

Looking at full miltek and remap or stage 2 if you are that way inclined and was reading into the regal/eds software. The eds site seems to think that 04 on models have a weaker clutch and cant handle more than 360nm about 250 ftlb. http://eds-motorspor...ase1-Chiptuning I was thinking that this may just be a speedster related issue. But also see that reidy remaps only reckon 250ftlb on standard clutch yet courtneay do not talk uprated clutch untill 300ftlb. Since ive got an 06 plate im not looking for a circa £2k stage 2 mods to turn into £3k for uprated clutch, bearing flywheel etc. As I had planned to keep it standard(ish) and not spend that much money on it. Anyone running over 250ftlb on an O4 plate on car with no issues on std clutch

[M3VXT]

I think you will stuggle with anything over 250ftlb Mine had 25k on it and I came away from courtenay with 280ftlb and it slipped now and then and got worse with time. I now have a helix ally flywheel and uprated clutch with no slipping

[John Boy]

Mine was slipping on 230 bhp and 260 ftlb, and its an 03 with only 18k when the remap was done. I think that you can be lucky or unlucky if it slips. I didnt know anything about weaker clutches in later cars. Now have an uprated clutch with my 'stage 2' and no probs.

[VXT Tim]

250bhp 283lbft and no problems yet (touch wood) been this stage of tune for over 2 years, maybe 3 i can't remember.

Edited by VXT Tim, 24 April 2010 - 04:18 PM.

[Boss VX]

273FtIbs on my CS2 remap with standard clutch. No problems driving every day for a year. Maybe I was lucky but I dont give it a hard time unless needed

[daz32]

I think just stage 1 map now for me then or have the torque capped at 250ftlb if im gonna up end spending £3k or more I will be better off seliing mine and buying a stage 4 car allready done for me.

[Nev]

I think just stage 1 map now for me then or have the torque capped at 250ftlb if im gonna up end spending £3k or more I will be better off seliing mine and buying a stage 4 car allready done for me.

Where did you get the £3k number from ?

A Helix 4 or 6 paddle clutch plate + cover + release bearing is just £540 in total. Fitting it should not be more than £400 (I think DuncanVxr fits them for £300). So all in, less than a grand, unless you have a blued/gouged flywheel which is just another £200.

Edited by Nev, 24 April 2010 - 08:14 PM.

[daz32]

I think just stage 1 map now for me then or have the torque capped at 250ftlb if im gonna up end spending £3k or more I will be better off seliing mine and buying a stage 4 car allready done for me.

Where did you get the £3k number from ?

A Helix 4 or 6 paddle clutch plate + cover + release bearing is just £540 in total. Fitting it should not be more than £400 (I think DuncanVxr fits them for £300). So all in, less than a grand, unless you have a blued/gouged flywheel which is just another £200.

Yeah what I was thinking was the additonal spend over stage 2 if you like. Having a stage 2 remap is likely to take over the 250 ftlb mark and into new clutch territory which is gonna cost another grand in real terms on top of the stage 2 cost.

[jaylin]

Looking at full miltek and remap or stage 2 if you are that way inclined and was reading into the regal/eds software. The eds site seems to think that 04 on models have a weaker clutch and cant handle more than 360nm about 250 ftlb.

IMHO as the clutch presure plate is the same throughout the let range, I find this hard to believe.
The only change is the clutch disk plate which was probably modded for other reasons than they are suggesting.

EPC Link <here>

NB this is chassis relevent rather than year.

[Ben Cole]

268lbft since last July on my 04 plate. No problems at all. Touching wood after reading this thread though...

[daz32]

Looking at full miltek and remap or stage 2 if you are that way inclined and was reading into the regal/eds software. The eds site seems to think that 04 on models have a weaker clutch and cant handle more than 360nm about 250 ftlb.

IMHO as the clutch presure plate is the same throughout the let range, I find this hard to believe.
The only change is the clutch disk plate which was probably modded for other reasons than they are suggesting.

EPC Link <here>

NB this is chassis relevent rather than year.

Well I cant find anything about different clutches either. Im also taking Regals figures with a pinch of salt they seem very optomistic to me.
However im thinking that they have listed it for a reason.

[crossVXT]

250ftlbs here and our std clutch in a 11k mile 2006 car is struggling. It's fine in the lower gears but starts to slip in 4th and 5th when on boost. Going to change it in the next fews weeks. The quality of the OEM clutch must vary quite a bit.

[rossma]

279 ft/lb, still on original clutch and all ok so far - stage 1.5 remap done last year by CS at 13K and now on 19K.

Edited by rossma, 26 April 2010 - 10:31 AM.

[Duncan VXR]

Std clutch / cover / fly safe level about 250ft/lb but really depends how you drive it tbh. Once they atart to slip they tend to never fully recover imo. Next step up is the fast road clutch (using CS wording) this has a slightly higher clamping force and good for about 290ish ft/lb again depending on how you drive them) Then the highest stage of organic clutch the competition road clutch (again using CS wording) this is good for about 350ft/lb but again how you drive it (this is a helix item) Then you have the 6 paddle clutch which is the higest spec one available for the F23 box and should be fine with 400ft/lb but certainly upto the abuse of any stg 4 car. I run the M32 box and run a 4 paddle clutch (a LOT more aggressive than the 6 paddle which imo is like driving an organic version in comparison) This setup is happy with side stepping of the clutch at most rpm and still going stronge 5k later With a paddle clutch it can recover a lot better from excessive heat over the organic versions and will eat you flywheel a lot quicker (think race pads ) and you have to keep in mine hill starts and holding the car on a hill with the clutch is a big no no on paddles - other than that I love them and done loads of M25 traffic jams ALways replace the slave / release bearing when changing for a good oe one and if you can stretch go fo a l/b fly as rthey do make a big diff. Also make sure you have thread lock for the fly bolts organic = nice normal driving mannor but does not really like abusive repeated launches but the higher level springs can make the pedal a bit stiffer paddle = no slip and recover from excessive heat but road manners no as nice especially on 4 paddle which I would sugest only if you really need it over the 6 paddle version. Also find the peddal nice and matiz soft on mine which def helps Nev has stated some of the pricing and have to say if I was changing and going stg4 or above there is only 1 I would recommend - 6 paddle!! Fitted 4 of these now and just work DG

[Duncan VXR]

Oh and I killed the competition spec setup with 320ft/lbs

[Nev]

Small Mark at Courtenay Sport advised me that the 4 or 6 paddle clutches from Helix cope with up to around 400 ft/lbs of torque. One of the best things your can do to save your clutch is to get the car mapped so that the characteritic torque spike at approx 3500 revs is 'flattened' by retarding the ignition and/or opening the Amal valve (assuming it can open and shut fast enough, which I am not sure about).

[jaylin]

Off topic - But I can recommend C/S competition clutch. It has a very standard clutch pedal feel. I'm currently running 3601btft of torque and have had no problems over the last 5k. This is on topic for me as I have just removed g/box for a little routine maintenance And I must say the clutch is still in very good 'as new' nick (I should also admit I haven't done any Santa Pod starts...) It certainly gets my recommendation for this level of tune

[daz32]

Small Mark at Courtenay Sport advised me that the 4 or 6 paddle clutches from Helix cope with up to around 400 ft/lbs of torque.

One of the best things your can do to save your clutch is to get the car mapped so that the characteritic torque spike at approx 3500 revs is 'flattened' by retarding the ignition and/or opening the Amal valve (assuming it can open and shut fast enough, which I am not sure about).

Thanks for all your replies I think the uprated clutch will have to wait untill next summer as i have allready overspent and my budget is allready out of the window. And im not expecting my mortgage to be as cheap as it is for much longer.

So that leads me on to my next question based on the remap. If with full miltek and air box mods aka courtneay stage 2 the car manages to achieve 240 bhp 260 ft lb but I want the torque capped at say 240 to be fairly safe that its not gonna go inside of 6 months. Does that also mean that I will have to loose some bhp also.
I know torque and bhp are related but as they give there peak figures at different parts of the rev range are they that closely related that you can't have one without the other. And would this make the car/power delivery feel nasty or odd to drive ideally I would want a torque/power curve that resembles more of a plateau rather than some mountain range. Or is it pointless getting it remapped in this way and should I just put the £500 remap cost towards getting new clutch sooner then having it remaped to its full potential.

[Duncan VXR]

Yep no easy answer to the budget restraints and where best to put the money but if I was you speak to who is going to map the car for their view also DG

[crossVXT]

Small Mark at Courtenay Sport advised me that the 4 or 6 paddle clutches from Helix cope with up to around 400 ft/lbs of torque.

One of the best things your can do to save your clutch is to get the car mapped so that the characteritic torque spike at approx 3500 revs is 'flattened' by retarding the ignition and/or opening the Amal valve (assuming it can open and shut fast enough, which I am not sure about).

Thanks for all your replies I think the uprated clutch will have to wait untill next summer as i have allready overspent and my budget is allready out of the window. And im not expecting my mortgage to be as cheap as it is for much longer.

So that leads me on to my next question based on the remap. If with full miltek and air box mods aka courtneay stage 2 the car manages to achieve 240 bhp 260 ft lb but I want the torque capped at say 240 to be fairly safe that its not gonna go inside of 6 months. Does that also mean that I will have to loose some bhp also.
I know torque and bhp are related but as they give there peak figures at different parts of the rev range are they that closely related that you can't have one without the other. And would this make the car/power delivery feel nasty or odd to drive ideally I would want a torque/power curve that resembles more of a plateau rather than some mountain range. Or is it pointless getting it remapped in this way and should I just put the £500 remap cost towards getting new clutch sooner then having it remaped to its full potential.

Can't fully answer your question but after our remap with Matt Reidy, when it became apparent the clutch was struggling to cope, he offered to tweak the map to reduce boost for no extra cost. Decided to keep it as it was in the end and upgrade the clutch instead (which we're going to have a crack at next week).