44 replies to this topic

[Rosssco]

£70 is a bit on the steep side, but then again I always use Fuchs Titan Pro-S 5W-40, as it usually comes out near the top on recommendations (from people in the know), and thats £55 for 5L...

[fezzasus]

The issue I have with all of these performance oils is they are almost completely untested using industry standard tests. Just because they have better base oil in (typically different ester grades), doesn't make them perform better, in many cases changing the base stock to a higher quality type makes performance worse as it alters solubility levels of the combustion products and of the additives themselves. I have contacted Millers to ask for any proof of performance and the best answer they have given me (read as only) is this oil shows a 1-2 bhp gain on a dyno. clearly that's within the bounce of the test. I would recommend using any mainstream oil over a performance type oil any day, purely based on the breadth of use and test data available. and to answer the ACEA question: A1/B1 - fuel economy oil, low performance A3/B3 - standard oil, low performance A3/B4 - standard oil, high performance A5/B5 - fuel economy oil, high performance. A3/B4 and A5/B5 are the only oils i'd recommend are used in our cars, simply because the price difference between them and the lower specs are minimal. A5/B5 from a formulation perspective is less robust than A3/B4 as it will generally use friction modifiers to gain the FE performance, which reduces the performance of the anti-wear in the formulation. There's also minimal gains from using a fuel economy oil in a passenger car as the test for fuel economy is using hardware which isn't representative of most cars and a cycle which doesn't relate to the real world. In conclusion, more money doesn't make a better oil. the £28 Fuchs oil I generally recommend has better proven performance than the £70 Millers.

[fezzasus]

oh, the final point is all oils technically contain 'nanotechnology' because the size of the suspended detergent system is measured in the nanometer scale. There's nothing clever about the Millers oil, just how they've branded it.

[oakmere]

I am not making any performance or added protection claims for this oil. Just letting people know that the engine is quiter / smoother at idle with this oil than it was with Mobil 3000 oil previously used. I will inform you all if it goes bank in the next few months.

[siztenboots]

earplugs would be cheaper

[fezzasus]

I am not making any performance or added protection claims for this oil. Just letting people know that the engine is quiter / smoother at idle with this oil than it was with Mobil 3000 oil previously used. I will inform you all if it goes bank in the next few months.

That's because the nanodrive has a higher viscosity index so it's thicker at a given entrainment speed, you can get the same effect with any oil with a 229.5 claim.

[Rosssco]

Fezzasus, how dare you come on here and use proper science and knowledge to shatter our ingrained, marketing-led misconceptions... Ps.- Titan Pro-S 5W-40 is ok though yeah?

Edited by Rosssco, 17 September 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[bradley]

<sub>Nothing wrong with spending a bit more on oil.
Default oil for me is Mobil 1, 0W40 as its nice and thin when cold. Its cold starts that wear out engines.

If I was using the car on a track or in very hot weather 5W50 or even 10W60 (more for racing) might be better.</sub>

[fezzasus]

Fezzasus, how dare you come on here and use proper science and knowledge to shatter our ingrained, marketing-led misconceptions...

Ps.- Titan Pro-S 5W-40 is ok though yeah?

I'd be concerned that it only carries ACEA A3/B3 claims rather than A3/B4 - as it means it either had too high cam wear or poor piston cleanliness

[Rosssco]

Fezzasus, how dare you come on here and use proper science and knowledge to shatter our ingrained, marketing-led misconceptions...

Ps.- Titan Pro-S 5W-40 is ok though yeah?

I'd be concerned that it only carries ACEA A3/B3 claims rather than A3/B4 - as it means it either had too high cam wear or poor piston cleanliness

OK, I don't think my car has cam wear, but worth a check..! Thats not the reason I bought this oil though.

So would you recommend the cheaper Fuchs oil for a SC'd VX220?

[ghand]

Well halfords do a a3 b4 spec oil for 30 ish quid as do loads of others why pay 70 quid for oil of the same or less spec than halfords own.

Edited by ghand, 17 September 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[oakmere]

To be far I can't expect Fezzasus to make any other comment. His job is testing oil and this oil has not been put through these tests so there is no way he could approve or recommend the oil. It may will be another slick 50 or all oils may be using this carbon bulky ball tech in a few years who knows?

[oakmere]

Also forgot to say it smells much nicer than previous oils I have used before. That alone as got to be worth £20.00

[Zoobeef]

I just stick to the factory reccomended shell helix ultra. &pound;55 for 10 litres as the car takes just over 8.

[Zoobeef]

I just stick to the factory reccomended shell helix ultra. &pound;55 for 10 litres as the car takes just over 8.

This is the specs for it.
Good enough Fezz?

Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 - specifications/approvals

Ferrari - the only engine oil recommended by Ferrari
API SM/CF
ACEA A3/B3
ACEA A3/B4
VW 502.00 / VW 505.00 / VW 503.01
Mercedes Benz MB 229.5
BMW LL-01 / BMW Longlife-01
Fiat - Meets the requirements of Fiat 9.55535 Z2
Renault RN 0700 & Renault RN 0710
Porsche A40

[fezzasus]

Also forgot to say it smells much nicer than previous oils I have used before. That alone as got to be worth £20.00

Ha! yes, esters do smell quite nice, at least in comparison to some of the group I oils or poor quality additives with residual xylene.

[fezzasus]

I just stick to the factory reccomended shell helix ultra. £55 for 10 litres as the car takes just over 8.

This is the specs for it.
Good enough Fezz?

Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 - specifications/approvals

Ferrari - the only engine oil recommended by Ferrari
API SM/CF
ACEA A3/B3
ACEA A3/B4
VW 502.00 / VW 505.00 / VW 503.01
Mercedes Benz MB 229.5
BMW LL-01 / BMW Longlife-01
Fiat - Meets the requirements of Fiat 9.55535 Z2
Renault RN 0700 & Renault RN 0710
Porsche A40

Ideal specs.

To give you a break down of them;

API - american claims, easy enough to get, the SM claim means it's up to date (commercial oils are only just starting to move to SN, because this is mainly sold in europe they will be slower to change)
ACEA - already covered; A3/B4 is the highest spec you can get for standard oils (oils for DPF diesels are different)
VW specs - some of the most demanding available, confirms cam wear performance.
MB 229.5 - they rate the engine engine and require high quality base stock, good confirmation of engine cleanliness
Renault look at turbocharger deposits.

The rest don't really mean much

[Claws]

I liked the BMW spec longlife Castrol, it was a nice luminous green colour I recently changed my oil for an unknown "Poor man's" oil from Eurocarparts, it was a good £20 cheaper for 5 litres of that compared to the 4l of equivalent Castrol that I'd have to add to with bother 1l bottle. So almost £30 cheaper. It's A3/B4 spec and my engine didn't explode in a mass of cogs and springs on track

[mtt88]

Put some of this very expensive oil in last week. £70 delivered for 6 litres. Thought what the hell it is only £20 ish pounds more than a good quality oil and it will not be changed for 12 months as low mileage road use. Tried to find some bad reviews but nothing. I can not notice any significant change on the move perhaps slightly smoother but this could just be a placebo effect. But it is definitely quiter at idle as if I had used a much thicker oil. My previous oil was mobile 5w40 so not a cheap oil.
So I would recommend if you are feeling flush.

I brought some of this oil (millers nanodrive 5w-40) reading the article in TV and how amazing it seems, and after collecting the vx (turbo) from my mechanic went for a drive. let engine warm up and gave it some beans....the noise the engine made after 4rpm was gettings louder and a tapping noise started to appear. Took it back to my mechanic and took him out for spin....the bottem end was been starved of oil! hyraulic tappetts or something?

Its going back to the bog standard vx 5w 30

just hope there isn't any damage!

the car is pretty standard apart from iridium plugs and pro alloy intake pipe!

[Zoobeef]

I would say tappets and they are at the top of the engine. May be a case of not enough oil in though rather than the make :/