44 replies to this topic

[Vladimir]

I know that there were number of topics with the same idea, but does actually anyone did it? Myself, I've been crazy enough to contact Caral Automotive but the cost they gave me for the job was not really affordable. Idea is still flying in my head so I want to check the history or maybe share the opinion/experience.

 

Proposed engine is Z28LET from Vectra. Which in itself is not bad, more complicated than 4-cylinders engines but as well reliable. Weight difference is just 10 kilos more than turbo 2.0; 380 lb for Z28LET and 360 lb for Z20LET.

 

Problems I see are:

[*]Fixing of the engine, original engine mount would not suit
[*]Driveshaft
[*]ECU
[/list]

But videos on the YouTube showing people driving V8 speedster mean that it’s possible and were done before.

So, would be helpful to get some response from people who might have done something like that or were thinking about it.

[Rosssco]

Korkey was looking at this engine, as were some other like Siztenboots I believe.

 

[*]The engine has the 'Ecotec' bellhousing pattern, so can can attached directly to variants of the F23 (standard gearbox) or M32 (6-speed) gearbox. Both these option mean that the majority of the engine mounting is fixed (bar the engine side), and driveshafts are just the standrd parts 
[*]ECU is a problem, and don't know of anyone who has attempted to use the standard (Z28NET) ECU. Its CAN based, which is the general problem I believe. Still, a modern aftermarket ECU like Syvecs S6 will control everything you want incl. FBW throttle and variable cams, and feature traction control (which would be useful I feel)
[/list]

Its a nice compact unit, expecially how the single is mounted, so should fit int he engine ok, perhaps with minor boot chopping.. If someone sorted an ECU solution, no reason why this has to be an especially difficult conversion, although no one has attempted it yet I believe.

[Vladimir]

Are you sure that Z28NET can be used with M32 gearbox, as far as I know they were coming with F40 manual/auto gearbox?

 

Do you know any particular reasons why that hasn't been done yet?

Edited by Vladimir, 23 May 2013 - 11:37 AM.

[Rosssco]

Are you sure that Z28NET can be used with M32 gearbox, as far as I know they were coming with F40 manual/auto gearbox?

 

Do you know any particular reasons why that hasn't been done yet?

 

If you get the correct bell-housing version (the Z20LET and many diesels use a different pattern) then yes. The F40 gearbox will fit the Z22SE (2.2 Ecotec), just that it doesn't quite fit in a VX220..

 

Dunno.. Its still alot of work, and there are relatively cheap options for more power in the form of turbo upgrades and supercharger conversions.. I'd personally love a V6 conversion of some sort. NA preferably, but turbo V6 would probably do... Reality is a Stage 2 SC is more than quick enough for me.

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

Do it!

 

I had a friend who had a Veccy VXR and a low key remap it had 300bhp and 400 torques

[Vladimir]

Easy to say, but challenging to do =)

[Rosssco]

Some info / speculation:

 

http://www.vx220.org...-project/page-4

 

[Vladimir]

Last thread was June 2012, has anyone contacted him after that?

[techieboy]

Korkey has changed plans and is concentrating on trying to get the characteristics he wants from the Z20LET and the chassis itself, I believe.

[Scuffers]

if your going to look at a V6, at least start with a decent one that's not a ship anchor.

 

the LET is already too heavy, going over this seems to be just pointless?

 

next question is why do it? you can get the same (if not more) power from a 4 pot a lot easier, only thing I concede is the sound may well be better.

[Rosssco]

if your going to look at a V6, at least start with a decent one that's not a ship anchor.

 

the LET is already too heavy, going over this seems to be just pointless?

 

next question is why do it? you can get the same (if not more) power from a 4 pot a lot easier, only thing I concede is the sound may well be better.

 

Its not really a ship anchor though? Its a modern all-alloy V6, just that it was various turbo gubbins attached which push up the weight. Once you remove un-needed ancillaries, and most likely the DMF, its probably no heavier than the 4-pot iron block LET. The Toyota 2GR-FE with SC in the latest Exige is about the same as that (although, perhaps that falls into the same pointless anchor category).

 

Its not all about power though (for us non-racers).. Sound, tractability, smoothness (bit gay I'll admit), power delivery and having basically a standard, but more powerful engine is more attractive to me personally, rather than a heavily modified, less advanced 4-pot with modified engine internals and potentially greater maintenance requirements..

  

If you want ~400 bhp and 400 lb/ft, maybe its an attractive project for someone. Bit like the K-series vs. Honda engine debate no?

Edited by Rosssco, 23 May 2013 - 02:57 PM.

[Nev]

I would guess it's more effort to install a V6 + box instead of simply uprating a Z20LET engine.

[Gedi]

If you're gonna go to all the trouble, why not put a V8 in instead?

The LS4 would be a good candidate

[techieboy]

I'd much prefer a V6 over a V8 and it's a much better fit for the VX. I could be persuaded with a decent high revving European V8 like the RS4 or M3 has though, but wouldn't bother with a Yankee one.

[Claws]

4pots sound a bit pap. If it fitted I'd plump for a BMW straight six, alas, it does not...hard cheese

[KurtVerbose]

What these cars should have is a modern interpretation of the Ferrari Dino 120° V6, longditudinally mounted, with the gearbox between the engine and diff.

 

Like the Ford Cosworth 1.5 litre formula 1 engine of the 80's. Absolutely tiny, very low centre of gravity, and very short.

 

[Nev]

Nice low CoG on that engine by the looks of it. Fitting a longitudinal engine in a VX would probably require removal and relocation of the fuel tank I think, so you could more the engine closer to the seats and thus get a transaxle in. It could really work well at a guess, as the CoM would more forward quite a bit in the car, might even give it close to 45%/55% over front and rear axle. Lots and lots of work and for a talented car hacker though !

Edited by Nev, 24 May 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[Rosssco]

Nice low CoG on that engine by the looks of it. Fitting a longitudinal engine in a VX would require removal and relocation of the fuel tank I think so you could more the engine closer to the seats and thus get a transaxle in. It would really work well, as the CoM would more forward quite a bit in the car, might even give it close to 50/50 over front and rear axle.

 

There are options available that would avoid interfering with the front engine bay bulkhead / fuel tank, retain the current wheel base, and fit in a nice V8 and transaxle... Wouldn't really help the weight distribution though (quite the opposite I suspect).. TBH, I don't think any longditudinal engine combo would based on the current wheel base - there's just not enough room to bring the engine forward (even with the fuel tank removed, and you are then sending the gearbox backwards, so the combined CoG still staying relatively close to the current transverse arrangement - but them where doens the fuel tank go on a road car? End up with a variable weight stuck out the back somewhere)

 

If its for pure dynamic performance, the design of the chassis is fairly restrictive to transverse engines only (unless maybe you have some mad flat 6 and transverse transaxle thingy..)

[Nev]

For race/track car the fuel cell could go nicely in the passenger seat area, would help move the CoG forward and be a relatively safe position for it.

[Rosssco]

For race/track car the fuel cell could go nicely in the passenger seat area, would help move the CoG forward and be a relatively safe position for it.

 

Unless it develops a minor leak during and impact and you end up upsides down...