100 replies to this topic

[Tolksee]

So I'm thinking about getting a VX220 again. (This one will be my 3rd...!) Only thing that puts me off is my lack of skill on recovering an unplanned fishtail - which was the last thing to happen to my VXR in the seconds before it was written off. I'm sure that the VX, being a mid-engined car only worsened the chances of me recovering the slides.

 

Now, I know about weight transfer and that kind of thing, and that the general concensus on the net seems to be that you should accellerate in the event of a fishtail, to get weight back onto the rear so the tyres can lock onto the road again.

 

However, the fishtail that killed my VX last time was caused by me accellerating in a straight line on a greasy motorway in about 3rd gear and spinning up the rear wheels. The revs rose and the sliding began. So in this scenario with the revs at about 4-5k, there seemed only one thing to do - back off the throttle to avoid the wheels spinning at an even faster rate and therefore giving even less grip(???). So in the brief seconds that I had to attempt to correct everythng, I came off the throttle and conscously gave fingertip-light inputs to the steering wheel to help the fronts keep as straight as possible - trying not to overcorrect, but all to no avail..!

 

So, question to those experienced MR drivers: in the situation where you get into a slide caused by spinning up the rears on full throttle, what do you do to recover it? Is it actually recoverable??

 

 

 

[mbes2]

I crashed.... SSSF mate.

 

Go car limits day to play/learn

 

A very quick 6 seconds of my VX ownership, I got away lucky...  so big learning curve from that.

Edited by mbes2, 14 June 2013 - 01:42 PM.

[Rosssco]

More ewperienced people will comment, but basically backing off the throttle is about the worst thing you can do - can't remember the exact technical reasons, but its basically like lift-off oversteer.

 

But ultimately, you can end up in a unrecoverable situation (I know JT Kirk never believed in a no-win situation, but I do..), so the trick is to not end up in that situation in the first place..

 

Driver training would be invaluable for both skill and confidence if you're worried about similar scenarios in the future..

[Jason]

I am not sure on the theory, I guess you back off only as much as required and smoothly.  As I think you do the opposite thing to what got you there.

 

Best disregard what I said as dont know...

However even knowing what to do wont save you as you need to do these things on instinct you wont have time to think...  So car limits like day seems the thing to do. I need to do some desperately...

 

 

Edited by Јason, 14 June 2013 - 01:57 PM.

[siztenboots]

how is the mx5 ?

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Tolksee!!  You're back old cap!!  I might know about a VXR up for grabs soon too....  It's a CATD mind but think it's going to be nice.....

 

The slide.....  You gotta keep your toe in and ride it out buddy.  Not ideal on the road and probably only ever going to end in tears but it's your best chance.  Don't let your bad experience worry you though mate, you've driven enough to know the score and you've been unfortunate enough to get bitten (hard) so you'll have more respect for it this time too.

 

Glad to see you back, now go buy one and come to the National in July (20th, Pembrey, God's country).

[techieboy]

Ease off on the throttle until the wheels stop spinning. Don't suddenly lift though. Or fit the Racelogic traction control.

[SteveA]

The acceleration to regain grip on oversteer only really applies to mid corner balanced oversteer. In your situation the rear wheel will have spun up allowing the turbo to boost pushing you into a violent oversteer moment. At this point the weight is on the rear but the grip limit has been exceeded. There are two ways this will go, you either lift off and take even more weight from the rear (which will expediate the spin) or keep the throttle where it is and hope the car regains traction.

 

You either have to be more progressive with the throttle so when you feel the wheels first start to slip you can back off slightly avoiding the big tail end out moment of get some device that will regulate wheel spin for you when you mash the peddle (traction control).

 

One thing I was always good at was throttle control ( I can say that now I don't have a VX to crash ) although I did tend to drive rather slowly in the wet/damp due to the high torque of my car anyway.

Edited by SteveA, 14 June 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Like this lol

[G-Bob]

I think the idea is to let the power off slowly until you regain traction. My brain goes "sh*t, fcuk, no, lift" so I do pretty much the same as you.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Like this lol  

 

lol, you actually caught that but then overcorrected.  Great spin though

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I like the way I managed to point in the right direction when I finished spinning

[Baron Von Scubadaddy]

Go and do a car limits day as said above

you will soon get over it and be loving the vx again !!

 

welcome back

[Pidgeon]

I really can't understand where this 'accelerate' crap comes from.  There are two immediate reactions required when traction is lost/the car begins to rotate.

 

1, Steer into the rotation, 2, back out of the throttle.  You have to regain traction.  You don't do that with the throttle open.

 

"In a spin, both feet in, if in doubt, both feet out"

[slindborg]

Turn into it and deck the throttle.... thats the exact advice given to me by the lunatics in Italy

[jameso]

Agree with partridge and techie. Back out a small amount until traction regained. Accelerating when oversteering is what you would do in an FWD car

[techieboy]

Turn into it and deck the throttle.... thats the exact advice given to me by the lunatics in Italy

 

[Bobby]

I've had quite a few hairy moments (luckily mostly on track) and what I tend to do is hold the throttle position and and try to recover through counter steering. Steering scrubs speed, which regains traction (well that's my theory anyways )

[techieboy]

I really can't understand where this 'accelerate' crap comes from. 

 

Drifters.

[SteveA]

I really can't understand where this 'accelerate' crap comes from.

 

I think people confuse power oversteer (as per MBez's incident) and cornering oversteer.

 

To quote a passage from Ross Bentleys book speed secrets

 

"If the car begins to oversteer a little, squeeze on more throttle to transfer a little weight to lhe rear; if it starts to understeer, ease off slightly, giving the front a little more grip. When ii's done just right, all four tires are slipping the same amount-the car perfectly balanced, neither oversteering or understeering in a perfect neutral steer attitude through the turn."

 

Edited by SteveA, 14 June 2013 - 03:03 PM.