100 replies to this topic

[Captain Vimes]

Car limits! 2 techniques that i was taught were: If you're trying to go straight then let go of the wheel and take feet off pedals... Car goes straight. In a corner it's a different answer. I've used this on track once or twice. Alternatively if you have Abs then stand on the brakes... Hard. Better not to get in the situation in the first place through measured use of the throttle.

[oakmere]

Look at SteveA thread in the gallery. This was on track with lots of room and an experienced track driver (This is not a dig at Steve just an example of how quick the car can let go). On road with less room 99% of drivers have no chance in a short wheel base rear engine car. I bet most accidents of this nature are driver error pushing too hard for conditions or skill. I have had 3 incidents in cars over the years and each time I was doing somthing I wouldn't normally. The answer in not to get in the situation in the first place on the road.

[mbes2]

 

Ive done the car limits day (before my road spin) but im sure that you have to it every month to become skilled to catch a spin.

 

Gripping the wheel just makes it worse... as per the one finger driving proves it... 

 

Yet most peoples first reaction is to grip... 

 

My SSSF  was 2 years ago now.... while traveling to the National.... 

 

I was lucky with NO CAR DAMAGE...  

 

2 years on, my driving style is still changed... no risks on the road , save it for track.

 

Atleast on track, it gives you more than 1 second to react to something.. and not then 5 more seconds to wonder WTF was that 

 

Just drive slower (even more so in the wet)  and save any foot down action for track work. 

 

 

Edited by mbes2, 15 June 2013 - 03:08 AM.

[Rickwoo118]

I've had couple of scary moments under acceleration where the back end flung out. Luckily I managed to catch it, Im no driving hero but I did whats mentioned above i.e ease of and it came back in

That's what has happened to me Aimy as well. One of them was coming out of Tatton......the back end came around after pulling out a little too fast ( with people taking photos and vids on way out).... Quite embarrasing really.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

 

Yeah but did you shake your head, lol.

[MatthewJClarke]

Power

[chris_uk]

I really can't understand where this 'accelerate' crap comes from. 

  Drifters.

Are peeps getting confused with the driven wheels, I often heard it said, and by BTCC drivers, that if you lose the back end in a FWD car you floor the throttle to pull it straight. Make sense to me but not in a VX!

The theory is planting your foot throws weight rearwards pushing the rear down to help tyres regain traction.

[siztenboots]

has cadence clutching been mentioned yet?

[turboluca]

After having had 28 Vxt an having all the stages 1.to 4 , currently got two stage 4 cars an a 3 at the minute. My advice would be to have the ats dtc wheels with good tyres an race logic . I seen an bought many cat d, c Vxt an I believe race logic should of been standard on Vx 220 from birth ! It would of saved a lot of accidents an spins, my last Renault racing blue stage 4 had race logic installed an LSD , with ats dtc on .

[Pidgeon]

 

 

 

I really can't understand where this 'accelerate' crap comes from. 

  Drifters.

Are peeps getting confused with the driven wheels, I often heard it said, and by BTCC drivers, that if you lose the back end in a FWD car you floor the throttle to pull it straight. Make sense to me but not in a VX!

The theory is planting your foot throws weight rearwards pushing the rear down to help tyres regain traction.

 

 

Great theory, but how will any weight transfer occur when the rears have lost traction?  

[Pidgeon]

After having had 28 Vxt an having all the stages 1.to 4 , currently got two stage 4 cars an a 3 at the minute. My advice would be to have the ats dtc wheels with good tyres an race logic . I seen an bought many cat d, c Vxt an I believe race logic should of been standard on Vx 220 from birth ! It would of saved a lot of accidents an spins, my last Renault racing blue stage 4 had race logic installed an LSD , with ats dtc on .

 

But it's precisely the attraction of the VX that it allows you to drive the car, not be mollycoddled by modern electronics.  If you want TC, buy any new car, our friends in the EU who know best require that we now have no choice.

 

Bizarrely, accidents still happen - how can this be?

[GeorgeBC]

I lift unless i'm driving Darrons car with the lsd and its out of a bend where I've been too giddy with the throttle. Afraid i don't believe in the floor it option and I've had plenty of sideways moments and not managed to hit anything hard yet. Fwd or 4wd then yeah floor it, mid engined high powered rwd car hmmmm. I agree with having to keep the car settled but if your completley sideways then the car isn't settled anymore and I think the steering input and is the most important thing.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

 

After having had 28 Vxt an having all the stages 1.to 4 , currently got two stage 4 cars an a 3 at the minute. My advice would be to have the ats dtc wheels with good tyres an race logic . I seen an bought many cat d, c Vxt an I believe race logic should of been standard on Vx 220 from birth ! It would of saved a lot of accidents an spins, my last Renault racing blue stage 4 had race logic installed an LSD , with ats dtc on .

 

But it's precisely the attraction of the VX that it allows you to drive the car, not be mollycoddled by modern electronics.  If you want TC, buy any new car, our friends in the EU who know best require that we now have no choice.

 

Bizarrely, accidents still happen - how can this be?

 

 

 

Andrew, you're so grumpy this morning

[turboluca]

Yes I understand that that's the attraction of the Vx , but for the less confident drivers a race logic system is great . You can turn it off when you want and on when needed.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

This thread has certainly divided opinion!

 

I think there are too many different situations now that are included in the term 'fishtail' that car be cured in different ways.

 

Yeah if you're proper sideways then planting the throttle will spin you, in fact it's probably what got you in the mess in the first place. 

 

Spinning up the rears coming out of a bend.....  Throttle here can your friend and your enemy!  As long as you've got the correct line then you should be able to leave the back wheels spin, maintain the balance of the car and ride it out.  However get the line wrong and swing the back end out without an LSD you're probably in trouble and throttle wont help so lifting is your best bet.

 

Similarly if you've stomped on the brakes mid corner to yaw the car then technically you're oversteering and throttle is the only way to get the car going straight again.  Lift here and you're screwed...

 

There are tons of scenarios where each option is appropriate, you've just go to go with instinct and roll the dice.... 

 

Going back to Tolksee looking to build confidence then experience is the only way to build it mate.  People can talk on here as much as they like but that's not going to help if it goes Pete Tong.  You need a controlled environment to push it to the limit and regain (or spin).

 

CarLimits day or some track tuition mate that's your best bet

 

 

[chris_uk]

Where is scuffers.. Normally he is all over threads like this barking at everyone.

[Sammyturbo]

I had a lot of time playing in the snow earlier on in the year and have to say the VX is pretty chuckable I know this is different to getting a slide on at higher speeds but it gives you the basics of how to catch a slide at a much slower speed

 

It really depends on the situation with regards to applying more power, holding constant throttle or lifting of is required.  As most have said Car limits is the only way to experience it in a safe way.

 

Enjoy my oversteer moments anyway

 

 

[Firthy]

Want to know how you catch a fish tail..... look no further..... When it's this far gone you have to nail the brake pedal at the right moment to slow the slide down...

Edited by Firthy, 16 June 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[Firthy]

If you want to save a big slide in a vx you need fast hands here's a big moment from Oulton earlier this year. Having harnesses / a proper seat enables you to have instant feedback and you need that feel... Notice how quick I wind the lock off to stop the fish tail.... this is what you need to do to stop the car sliding back the other way into a fish tail....

Edited by Firthy, 16 June 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Great save!!!  I agree you gotta get the lock off quick as the over correction is a killer too.  Here's my less gracious version of firthy's save lol