939 replies to this topic

[Foxy]

Funny how everyone (I think) wants to go to Gods heaven.

Really? You are massively out of touch.

[Foxy]

It's a complete load of crap isn't it?   Why people believe it I'll never know.   Utter stupid crap.

Totally. They believe because they have been told to...

[Zoobeef]

I want to be useful carbon when I die. Or maybe just a good pile of compost spread over the local fields.

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

Right I have been avoiding this because I don’t want to fall out with anybody, but it’s gone too far. Just to make clear that I don’t base an opinion on anything that I have not researched and witnessed first-hand. The bible teaches us that God is all powerful. "O Sovereign Lord! You have made the heavens and earth by Your great power. Nothing is too hard for You!" (Jeremiah 32:17). The bible teaches us that God is all forgiving. “For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Farther will also forgive you” (Matthew 6:14) “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify is from all unrighteousness” (John 1:9) The bible teaches us that God is in all things. “one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” (Ephesians 4:6) “For from him and through him and for him are all things.” (Romans 11:36) The Quran is only one of many holy books to the Muslims (a bit like the Bible as it’s a collections of books rather than just one) and like both they have conflicts throughout. For example, “If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or I speak of myself.” (John 7:17) and “For from him and through him and for him are all things.” (Romans 11:36). One says that all everyone does is through God and the other says God has no control over you. I won’t get into the Quran now or the three supporting books but I might at a later date if the demand is there, it’s a lot of data and is not easy to read. Let’s get going shall we. If a Sinner repents and surrenders his life to God all his sins will be forgiven, this is exclusive to any sins bar one (everything from child rape and murder to being rude to a stranger). When he passes he will be taken and allowed to heaven. However if a person that has committed no sin in his life, but due to never being in contact with the Bible or the Christian faith and therefor knows nothing of Jesus (sidenote: this is also God) or God. Will be denied the same privilege. Just as a note the only sin that is unforgivable is blasphemy. Passages relevant to the above; “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify is from all unrighteousness” (John 1:9) “Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) “I promise you that any of the sinful things you say or do can be forgiven, no matter how terrible those things are. But if you speak against the Holy Spirit, you can never be forgiven. That sin will be held against you forever” (Mark 3:28-29) If God is in all things, then is also good and evil. So everything from the joy of birth, to the death of a follower of Christ due to illness. So yes, God gives Children bone cancer and before they have had a chance to give their lives to God are dead. Also gives you love and Joy. For an all Loving God this seems unrealistic. If everybody’s lives are written out and we follow the path given then God is also condemning some people to a life of sin in order for others to reach glory. This is also not the mark of an all loving, forgiving, kind God. Relevant passages; “For from him and through him and for him are all things.” (Romans 11:36) “Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.” (John 4:7-8) “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.” (Matthew 7:13) “For the LORD your God is a merciful God; he will not abandon or destroy you or forget the covenant with your forefathers, which he confirmed to them by oath.” (Deuteronomy 4:31) God is all powerful, there is nothing God cannot do, God created the Earth and the Heavens, all life the universe and everything. So say that natural disasters, illness, premature death, famine and in general all bad things are created by the Devil (we will ignore the OBVIOUS conflict here because God created all the things, so I can make another point). So the Devil is bad and God is good, as God is the most powerful why does the Devil still exist? Ok say that God won’t destroy the Devil because he is all forgiving, then why is God ok with the Devil ruining the Earth with all the bad things? I assume that God is ok with it otherwise a stop would have been put to it all, being that God is all powerful. I have herd counter arguments from believers saying that the Devil exists because of free will (we already covered that but anyway). The thing is my point is being missed here, evil would never have even been possible unless God created it or allowed it to happen in the first place. How is this the mark of a fair and loving farther? Would any loving farther intentionally put his children though pain? Do I need to post more scripture to back up what I am saying or do you understand that I have read and researched? Pete, be careful with the whole “I am more riotous than thou”. “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9) Maybe I’m talking crap because according to the bible we are not supposed to understand. “Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.” (Proverbs 3:5) Although at this point I would like to point out the Bible is written by men. I am, by nature a skeptical person, question everything. Investigate everything. I want to understand, in my search for knowledge I have come to my own conclusions. I will not judge or decimate against any faith or person based on same. After reading various religious books I agree with most of them, in which I can summarize with “don’t be a selfish, think about others and don’t be a dick”. I try to live like this and think all others should too, it would make the world a much nicer fairer place, and it has nothing to do with God, religion or faith.  

[slindborg]

10 words or less please

[techieboy]

Fcuk me, Dot Cotton is on the forum.

[Ormes]

Fcuk me, Dot Cotton is on the forum.

 

[Foxy]

10 words or less please

His last 10 words sum it up nicely: "It has nothing to do with God, religion or faith."

[hairy]

Blimey Stu, were you bored?

[RabnaKS]

Don't you need to be thinking about your VX?

[mbes2]

 

Sorted. 

 

 

[casino]

Stuewy...Blimey Thought you were sticking up for poor old God Squad for a short moment ..matey..made me laugh . Strikes me that lots of people don't need God. Good luck to em. I've tried to explain things but no one is interested waste of time. ..just makes .Org folks angry. Best I shut up shop. And despite all my drinking and womanising I'm "riotous"...me??? Ffs...can you believe that?? Sorry if I've gone over my 10 words.

[mbes2]

Stuewy...Blimey Thought you were sticking up for poor old God Squad for a short moment ..matey..made me laugh . Strikes me that lots of people don't need God. Good luck to em. I've tried to explain things but no one is interested waste of time. ..just makes .Org folks angry. Best I shut up shop. And despite all my drinking and womanising I'm "riotous"...me??? Ffs...can you believe that?? Sorry if I've gone over my 10 words.

 

God comes in handy when it comes to fault finding the VX

 

As long as everyone is happy in life, its that what counts

[Foxy]

Not angry Pete, just frustrated.

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

Stuewy...Blimey Thought you were sticking up for poor old God Squad for a short moment ..matey..made me laugh . Strikes me that lots of people don't need God. Good luck to em. I've tried to explain things but no one is interested waste of time. ..just makes .Org folks angry. Best I shut up shop. And despite all my drinking and womanising I'm "riotous"...me??? Ffs...can you believe that?? Sorry if I've gone over my 10 words.

 

Tried to explain things? I have seen none of this. It was not supposed to make you laugh, but make you think.

 

In my Breakdown of the Christian Holy book, all I used was the book. I did not look at science or outside sources I used what Christians use to justify God and the "way he is".

 

My conclusions for the 10 words or less crew.

 

You can either pick two conclusions. Either God is Kind and loving but utterly powerless

Or God is a dictator that loves to cause conflict and pain and still wants to be loved.

 

Or its a load of crap.

 

Pete I would love to have your response to the points I bought up, I can change my opinions when a better argument is bought up. Those are the conclusion I come to while at Church and listing to Pastors and Vickers. I have even read study books on the Bible. I don't see how a logical minded person can just ignore the holes.

[Andrew aka Stuwy]

People need to be kind and love one another, not because a book tells them, but because they want to. Otherwise it means nothing, if you only doing it because of the book and the promise of heaven you only doing it for yourself. And that is not real kindness.

[KurtVerbose]

You can either pick two conclusions. Either God is Kind and loving but utterly powerless

Or God is a dictator that loves to cause conflict and pain and still wants to be loved.

 

Or its a load of crap.

 

A bit monty python spanish inquisition that is.

[NickA]

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition..

[ghand]

Stuewy...Blimey Thought you were sticking up for poor old God Squad for a short moment ..matey..made me laugh . Strikes me that lots of people don't need God. Good luck to em. I've tried to explain things but no one is interested waste of time. ..just makes .Org folks angry. Best I shut up shop. And despite all my drinking and womanising I'm "riotous"...me??? Ffs...can you believe that?? Sorry if I've gone over my 10 words.

Now that's just not true, your not wasting your time in any discussion and non of us get angry FFS I for one enjoy and find interesting the views of folk like you and Zuber even if I don't get the one word answers I ask for at times from Zuber But if you have sand in your fanny and want to shut up shop that's ok , 10 word limit ??? your definitely not yourself. Have a rest and come back stronger.

[ghand]

People need to be kind and love one another, not because a book tells them, but because they want to. Otherwise it means nothing, if you only doing it because of the book and the promise of heaven you only doing it for yourself. And that is not real kindness.

Stuwy being kind will not stop you burning in Hell for all eternity, you can be the best human on the planet and do more for others than anyone else on the planet but you still burn forever unless you get on your knees and worship this God. He obviously isn't bothered and doesn't give a rats arse how good or kind you are he wants you on your knees worshiping him end of. Well that's the way I see it. That is why I will never end up in heaven if it exists because I hate the whole principle of worship me or burn no matter how good or kind you are in life.