241 replies to this topic

[techieboy]

What's the score on gearboxes and gear ratios?  Vettel was apparently running different ratios this weekend. If they've cracked the gearbox open to change ratios at what point does that constitute a "new" gearbox? I thought they had to use the same gearbox for 6 consecutive races this year?

[Dave E]

By switching the ratios they apparently played their one gearbox joker for the year, but does this mean they now have to keep these ratios for the rest of the year?

[Scuffers]

it would appear so...

 

several teams did gearbox cog/dog changes but most were under the 'replacing damaged ones' rules (ie, like for like)

 

the list of engine parts used this weekend:

 

up to FP2

 

engines (ICE):

 

Vettel

Ricciardo

Vergne

Kvyat

Bianchi

Chilton

 

Turbo's

 

Bianchi

Chilton

 

MGU-K

 

Vettel

 

MGU-H

 

Bianchi

Chilton

 

Energy Store

 

Sutil

 

CE-CUK (Control electronics)

 

Ericssion

 

CE-TRAC (control Electronics)

 

Sutil

 

 

After FP2

 

MGU-K

 

Ericsson

Kobayashi

Grosjean

 

CE-OBI

 

Kimi

 

 

[siztenboots]

[siztenboots]

After 3 races

ICE Internal Combustion Engine, TC Turbo Charger, MGU-K Motor Generator Unit Kinetic, MGU-H Motor Generator Unit Heat, ES Energy Store, CE Control Electronics, Gearboxes (assumed 1 subject to more data ) Team Driver ICE TC MGU-K MGU-H ES CE-CUK CE-TRAC CE-OBI GB Red Bull Vettel 2 1 2 1 1 3 1 1 1 Red Bull Ricciardo 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 Mercedes Hamilton 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Mercedes Rosberg 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Ferrari Alonso 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Ferrari Raikkonen 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 Lotus Grosjean 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 Lotus Maldonado 2 2 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 McLaren Button 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 McLaren Magnussen 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 F India Hulkenberg 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 F India Mendoza 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Sauber Sutil 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 1 1 Sauber Guitierrez 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 T Rosso JEV 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 T Rosso Kvyat 2 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 Williams Massa 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 1 Williams Bottas 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Marussia Bianchi 2 2 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 Marussia Chilton 2 2 1 2 1 2 1 1 1 Caterham Kobayashi 1 1 2 1 3 4 1 1 1 Caterham Ericsson 1 1 2 1 2 4 1 1 1

 

 

[Rosssco]

Merc is a second a lap quicker. RBR won't make that up in time I think Scuffers. Would say there's now about a 90-95% chance of merc winning constructors and if the bookies are at 1/14 that is about right and their opinion marries up with mine.

 

They were ~2 secs a lap quicker after the safety phase, as the fuel savings done during the safety car meant they could run pretty much without fuel restriction.

 

No doubt the Renault powertrain teams will close the gap, but of course Mercedes will also continue development / refinement / optimisation of their powertrain, and of course chassis development (within reason), so I feel they may have a clear advantage for a good few races to come...

[jameso]

Yep. Constructors title will be good as done after 8-10 races

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Would it comply with the rules if the teams ran the fuel in to a second tank while fuel conservation period and then shoving loads near the end of the race from the secondary tank Assuming the flow meter has to be in primary tank ?

[Duncan_F]

Yep. Constructors title will be good as done after 8-10 races

 

I'm not so sure. I kind of agree with Scuffers, I think Red Bull still have a good car, it's just that their not running it as hard as the Mercedes because of cooling/reliability. Don't forget what happened with Brawn and Buttons title winning year, they absolutely shat on everyone for the first half of the season and when everyone else caught up they only just managed to win the title at the last race.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Mercedes win it, I just don't think the margin they have over the rest of the field will remain as big as it is for too long.

 

What I love though is that the Mercs were allowed to race. When Red Bull, and Ferrari when they were on top, were out in front it was a procession, and was boring to watch. The racing between Hamilton and Rosberg was superb though, hats off to Mercedes for allowing that.

[Winstar]

Don't forget what happened with Brawn and Buttons title winning year, they absolutely shat on everyone for the first half of the season and when everyone else caught up they only just managed to win the title at the last race.

Not sure it could happen now with the new limits on computational modelling as well as actual wind tunnel testing.

Edited by Winstar, 08 April 2014 - 11:35 AM.

[fezzasus]

 

Yep. Constructors title will be good as done after 8-10 races

 

I'm not so sure. I kind of agree with Scuffers, I think Red Bull still have a good car, it's just that their not running it as hard as the Mercedes because of cooling/reliability. Don't forget what happened with Brawn and Buttons title winning year, they absolutely shat on everyone for the first half of the season and when everyone else caught up they only just managed to win the title at the last race.

 

 

That's a very different situation. The Brawn team didn't have the people or the money to develop the car. Every other team developed their cars and caught up. Mercedes have the money to keep development up.

[fezzasus]

Yep. Constructors title will be good as done after 8-10 races

 

Post Europe.

 

During the European section of the championship all the teams can develop and deploy parts very quickly, when that finishes they can't really get the parts time to develop new ones.

[slindborg]

 

Don't forget what happened with Brawn and Buttons title winning year, they absolutely shat on everyone for the first half of the season and when everyone else caught up they only just managed to win the title at the last race.

Not sure it could happen now with the new limits on computational modelling as well as actual wind tunnel testing.

 

 

Wow, they are even restricting the CFD time now...?

Is that to try and level the field with the teams who have huge farms for doing the work vs someone in a shed and a raspberry pi?

[turbobob]

Is it time that is the limit? I do know they aren't allowed to wind tunnel test on a model larger than 1/3 size.

[techieboy]

Yeah, there's a whole complicated equation that tries to equalise real wind tunnel hours against CFD processing time in teraflops .  

[slindborg]

FFS. Just have a Standard workstaion setup (or server setup) that can be used. Then they can use that 24/7 and all have an equal footing on that front.

As for wind tunnels... tricky one but again have a spec they can use and run with it. OR they all have to share their tunnels (ohh err)

[Winstar]

Don't forget what happened with Brawn and Buttons title winning year, they absolutely shat on everyone for the first half of the season and when everyone else caught up they only just managed to win the title at the last race.

Not sure it could happen now with the new limits on computational modelling as well as actual wind tunnel testing.

  Wow, they are even restricting the CFD time now...? Is that to try and level the field with the teams who have huge farms for doing the work vs someone in a shed and a raspberry pi?

teams can now use a combination of 30 hours wind tunnel time or 30 TeraFLOP's of computational resource in an 8 week period.

Edited by Winstar, 08 April 2014 - 12:10 PM.

[slindborg]

18hrs a day assuming they (laughably) do 5 days a week, in the tunnel... thats bags of time, maybe.

 

I've been reading the Racecar Engineer article about the porsche, and how its powertrain and hybrid sh*t is seemingly 90% the same as F1.... Now, could this be a lead for Porsche to come as an engine supplier? or alternatively, are there GT/LMP classes that would permitt a 1.6L V6 hybrid in...... and get some 'testing' done under the guise of a race series

[fezzasus]

From what I understand the formats have been designed so that the F1 engines could be used in an LMP class car if desired.

[jameso]

 

Yep. Constructors title will be good as done after 8-10 races

 

I'm not so sure. I kind of agree with Scuffers, I think Red Bull still have a good car, it's just that their not running it as hard as the Mercedes because of cooling/reliability. Don't forget what happened with Brawn and Buttons title winning year, they absolutely shat on everyone for the first half of the season and when everyone else caught up they only just managed to win the title at the last race.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Mercedes win it, I just don't think the margin they have over the rest of the field will remain as big as it is for too long.

 

What I love though is that the Mercs were allowed to race. When Red Bull, and Ferrari when they were on top, were out in front it was a procession, and was boring to watch. The racing between Hamilton and Rosberg was superb though, hats off to Mercedes for allowing that.

 

 

Red bull definatel raced over the years - don't remember Webber and Vettel knockign each other off all the time lol? Just Webber wasn't fast enough to stay with Vettel over the last couple year or so and was always sat battling for 2nd-5th (the majority of the time).

 

Button won with a race to spare as far as I remember - didn't even go down to the last race - all he had to do was drive sensibly for the rest of the season 3-6th place or so (which is his specialty it seems).

 

The reality was the constructors (that I am talking about) was done long before that penultimate race. Just like this season will be, they have so much time in their pocket AND, like fezz says, the budget and resources to continue development. It's now looking 90-95% chance of merc winning constructors (reflected in the prices). Shoulda poured money into them at 5/6 which was VERY generous. I woulda said 3/7 woulda been reasonable odds start of the season so to be able to get 5/6 was a very very good bet.