93 replies to this topic

[Steffen]

 

 

 

 

However I have had (admittedly minor) brake heat issues on track with the two pots in my old VXT from being out for longer than a 10-12 min session at Pembrey. Worth adding that was with new fluid, recent (and decent) pads and discs.

 

 

 

What pads?  Sounds like they weren't up to the job.

 

exactly!

 

I have done 24H races on slicks with the std 2 pots, no issues (1 pad change at 14 Hours)

 

sounds like sh*t pads and disks to me.

 

only advantage 4 pots have is:

 

1) bigger pads - longer life

2) can be sped'ed for bigger/fatter disks 

 

unless your doing endurance racing on slicks, really not worth it, just spend the money on PROPER disks and pads.

 

@Scuffers

With a 700kg Lotus or a 900kg Vx220???

[techieboy]

Admit it, you want the bling. 260bhp then latterly 300bhp. Standard 2 pots, 295mm AP rotors on Plans bells up front, 288mm EP bells & rotors on the back and Exige ABS controller. Circa twice yearly (when I used to drive it) fluid replacement with RBF600 and always decent pads (Pagid RS4-2, then RS14, then CL5+, now CL6) except a very very short (6 hour) and stupid dalliance with Yellow Stuff pads and never had a problem stopping the car. The tyres get too hot and sloppy before the brakes do. Despite having bought a replacement set of front rotors about 4 years ago, I'm still on the original rotors as all the specialists have said they haven't needed changing. ETA: Plus DucattiSenna cooling duct kit.

Edited by techieboy, 07 May 2014 - 01:20 PM.

[Scuffers]

if you were looking at rotor options from PF, Alcon or Tarox , is 25.4mm the obvious choice thickness for the 2pot

  all the usual callipers are designed for 1" disks (as in 25.4mm) only exception is the EP 4 pots, where the MS versions are ok with 25.4 or 28mm disks.

@Scuffers With a 700kg Lotus or a 900kg Vx220???

at the time, a ~770Kg's Elise that said, makes no odds, it's the disk that's the limiting factor here, not the calliper, I have done more than a few 900+ Kg's Exiges with std 2 pot's on decent disks.

[Steffen]

No doubt about the fact that it is very important to have good pads and disks, but to say there is no need for 4pot isn't correct in my opinion.

 

To have 2Ap with good pads and disks is good solution, the same with 4pot is the better one.

 

 

[Sticky]

What makes a 'PROPER' disk?

[Scuffers]

No doubt about the fact that it is very important to have good pads and disks, but to say there is no need for 4pot isn't correct in my opinion.

 

To have 2Ap with good pads and disks is good solution, the same with 4pot is the better one.

 

 

 

define better? (with metrics)

 

What makes a 'PROPER' disk?

 

one made from quality castings using decent materials.

 

problem is that in the disk market, there are a lot of foundries, even within 1 make (like AP) they use some truly horrible castings at the cheap end, even though others are really top quality.

 

other problem is raw cost is not a good indicator of quality.

[Sticky]

So are AP discs worth the vast cost considering the possibility of poor quality casting?

[Scuffers]

So are AP discs worth the vast cost considering the possibility of poor quality casting?

some are, yes.

 

(and it does not follow that the best ones are the ones at vast cost as you put it)

[leevx2.2]

Do you a deal ;-)

[Sticky]

 

So are AP discs worth the vast cost considering the possibility of poor quality casting?

some are, yes.

 

(and it does not follow that the best ones are the ones at vast cost as you put it)

 

 

These are def 'vast cost'

 

http://www.elisepart...ing-bell-discs/

 

So are they worth it or should I take Lee up on his offer?

[Scuffers]

up to you?

 

£535 a pair for the 290's is not cheap, but they are a much better disk than the 308's in every respect.

 

that said, the cheaper EP ali belled ones are also much better than the 308's

Edited by Scuffers, 07 May 2014 - 03:55 PM.

[GeorgeBC]

Sorry about the thread drift Graeme but i guess it will all help you out on making any decisions.

 

I'm in need of some new rotors to replace my AP 308's. If it was your money Scuffers would you buy these AP ones for £573.54 or these Reyland ones for £245 plus delivery?

 

Like everything it seems a mine field. I've been very pleased with the front rotors but are they worth the extra money?

Edited by GeorgeBC, 07 May 2014 - 04:20 PM.

[Graeme Lambert]

up to you?

 

£535 a pair for the 290's is not cheap, but they are a much better disk than the 308's in every respect.

 

that said, the cheaper EP ali belled ones are also much better than the 308's

 

These ones Simon?

 

http://www.vx220part...elled-discs-s2/

 

And I know what you said earlier, but just to check, does the power of the VX/Elise make any difference to your thought's re the longevity of two pots with ali discs and decent pads on circuit for extended periods of time?

 

G

[Graeme Lambert]

Sorry about the thread drift Graeme but i guess it will all help you out on making any decisions.

 

I'm in need of some new rotors to replace my AP 308's. If it was your money Scuffers would you buy these AP ones for £573.54 or these Reyland ones for £245 plus delivery?

 

Like everything it seems a mine field. I've been very pleased with the front rotors but are they worth the extra money?

 

No problem mate, my head's drifting around as much as this thread at the moment...

 

If only I had lots of money drifting around me.

 

G

[rob999]

From 2 pots to deffo 4pots to probably 2pots in a day eh G

[Sticky]

Sorry about the thread drift Graeme but i guess it will all help you out on making any decisions.

 

I'm in need of some new rotors to replace my AP 308's. If it was your money Scuffers would you buy these AP ones for £573.54 or these Reyland ones for £245 plus delivery?

 

Like everything it seems a mine field. I've been very pleased with the front rotors but are they worth the extra money?

Good question GBC

[Gedi]

A lot of us are starting to move towards the Reyland rotors now, so maybe there'll be more info on the uality soon. Although I do believe they're just a standard Pagid  (think it was Pagid...) disc which has been machined to fit on an ali bell. Therefore the quality of the disc will be no better than that.

 

I think only JG has used the Reyland discs in anger, so maybe it's worth asking him about the quality (mine are just sat in the loft.,,,)

[Graeme Lambert]

From 2 pots to deffo 4pots to probably 2pots in a day eh G

Nope. Considered 4 pots at the very start. Then decided 2 pots were enough. Then thought 4 pots were way forward. And now still swaying between 2. What I don't want to do is spunk a load of cash on 2 pot Ali bells etc then discover they're not up to the job I'm asking of them and have to buy 4 pots.

[Scuffers]

A lot of us are starting to move towards the Reyland rotors now, so maybe there'll be more info on the uality soon. Although I do believe they're just a standard Pagid  (think it was Pagid...) disc which has been machined to fit on an ali bell. Therefore the quality of the disc will be no better than that.

 

I think only JG has used the Reyland discs in anger, so maybe it's worth asking him about the quality (mine are just sat in the loft.,,,)

 no experience of these Reyland disks...

 

if they are as you say, then it really does depend on how good the base disks were, and as we all know, there are some very cheap ones out there, the Saab ones are what? £150 a pair, given 10 minutes CNC time and a bell, there you have it.

[Scuffers]

right, some more words!

 

problem for me here is that one mans trackday use is another Sunday drive etc etc.

 

cheap mass produced one-piece disks are ok, but obviously, they are not going to put up with the same level of abuse a 'belled' two piece disk will.

 

then we get to the differences in how the disks are made and what material they are, as I said before, AP make some truly horrible disks as well as some really good ones, it just depends on the castings (I would assume AP must use many different foundries?).

 

now, the question is do you 'need' the best disks money can buy?

 

ultimately, I can't answer that without knowing what your car is and how you use it.

 

(consider 99% of you probably drive like a big girls blouse compared to a committed race driver)

 

edit:

 

for example, Geary's NA VX has EP's cheap ali belled disks and padgid pads on it, and they are more than up to me abusing it on track, however, if he bolted a TVS on it, I doubt that would still be true.

Edited by Scuffers, 07 May 2014 - 05:48 PM.