56 replies to this topic

[chris_uk]

 

Pedal travel feels fine, pedal goes hard before full travel, its just further along the travel over standard. its not quite as sharp as standard but its NOTHING like as bad as mikes if you can remember.

I use cl5+ and i never lock my rears first, its always the fronts which lock first.

Chris you don't run 2 pots on the rear standered Brembo calipers and 4 pots should be ok that's why you have no problem .

 

 

 

I've had 2 pots on the rear for years, i was one of the first to do the conversion, way before the group buy for the brackets was made. 

[Graeme Lambert]

Looks like you and I need a chat about brake bias valves on Saturday then lee!

[GeorgeBC]

 

 

Pedal travel feels fine, pedal goes hard before full travel, its just further along the travel over standard. its not quite as sharp as standard but its NOTHING like as bad as mikes if you can remember.

I use cl5+ and i never lock my rears first, its always the fronts which lock first.

Chris you don't run 2 pots on the rear standered Brembo calipers and 4 pots should be ok that's why you have no problem .

 

 

 

I've had 2 pots on the rear for years, i was one of the first to do the conversion, way before the group buy for the brackets was made. 

 

Chris look how nice your car used to look!

[The Batman]

[smiley]

It´s always the red ones that get butchered, or taken apart.

 

[The Batman]

Chris's Vx is pink though?

[kipper]

1, You canna change the laws of physics and pressure in the system will always be equal.  All these things do is limit flow, so the pressure downstream increases more slowly than the upstream pressure, but will still reach the same pressure.  To do it properly, you need a bias pedal box with two MCs, hence two systems, two pressures.

 

2, Don't we have a diagonally split system, so you're either repiping or fitting two?

 

What Andrew said....the the best way forward is the twin master cylinder set up with balance bar (I believe that there is somebody that makes one for the Elise...AI Tech?).

 

All the bias valve does is change the gradient of the line of force applied/to pressure produced, beyond the 'Knee Point', so given time, the down stream side (ie the rear braking circuit) would equalise pressure with the 'Up stream side (the front braking circuit).

 

Have tried the standard two pots on the rear (Steffens setup) and found far too much rear bias even with softer pads at the rear...have come to the conclusion that a dash adjustable balance bar is the way to go.

 

Dave

[Graeme Lambert]

1, You canna change the laws of physics and pressure in the system will always be equal.  All these things do is limit flow, so the pressure downstream increases more slowly than the upstream pressure, but will still reach the same pressure.  To do it properly, you need a bias pedal box with two MCs, hence two systems, two pressures.   2, Don't we have a diagonally split system, so you're either repiping or fitting two?

  What Andrew said....the the best way forward is the twin master cylinder set up with balance bar (I believe that there is somebody that makes one for the Elise...AI Tech?).   All the bias valve does is change the gradient of the line of force applied/to pressure produced, beyond the 'Knee Point', so given time, the down stream side (ie the rear braking circuit) would equalise pressure with the 'Up stream side (the front braking circuit).   Have tried the standard two pots on the rear (Steffens setup) and found far too much rear bias even with softer pads at the rear...have come to the conclusion that a dash adjustable balance bar is the way to go.   Dave

What pads were/are you running Dave? I was going to stick with pagids but lee suggests his balance was best with mix of cl5 and cl6

[FLD]

 

1, You canna change the laws of physics and pressure in the system will always be equal.  All these things do is limit flow, so the pressure downstream increases more slowly than the upstream pressure, but will still reach the same pressure.  To do it properly, you need a bias pedal box with two MCs, hence two systems, two pressures.

 

2, Don't we have a diagonally split system, so you're either repiping or fitting two?

 

What Andrew said....the the best way forward is the twin master cylinder set up with balance bar (I believe that there is somebody that makes one for the Elise...AI Tech?).

 

All the bias valve does is change the gradient of the line of force applied/to pressure produced, beyond the 'Knee Point', so given time, the down stream side (ie the rear braking circuit) would equalise pressure with the 'Up stream side (the front braking circuit).

 

Have tried the standard two pots on the rear (Steffens setup) and found far too much rear bias even with softer pads at the rear...have come to the conclusion that a dash adjustable balance bar is the way to go.

 

Dave

 

 

Sounds like you need one of these:

http://www.rallydesi...roducts_id=4062

Perhaps a couple of these:

http://www.rallydesi...oducts_id=16403

one of these:

http://www.rallydesi...roducts_id=4063

 

I got a pedal box off Joe to investigate this over summer.  They're easy enough to knock together, it's the bracketry tahts a ball ache.  You would probably have to ditch the servo too unless you get a remote version.

[chris_uk]

I have the cl5+ pads and i would probably consider moving to performance friction next time.. The 5+ i had were getting old and i did a trackday at...croft i think it was, i had fresh fluid and after 5/6 laps i felt the pads start to glaze over, i was having to push harder to get the same level of braking.. So i spoke to CL, explained my thoughts about going to cl6's etc and we came to the conclusion it was the pads getting old and not working as they should and i decided to re-order some cl5+s. After i went back on track they did feel much better but still after 5/6 laps i could feel then dropping off.. Not as much and maybe if i wasnt looking / waiting for it i might not of noticed at all.. But its led me to believe that i either brake for too long or too much on track or the pads are just not quite upto my needs on track.. When i drove mikes, i drove the same but never experienced the same feeling, maybe i wasnt all that intune with the car but i think i drove it enough to be.. He had performance friction and at no point did he ever moan about the brakes..

[kipper]

 

 

1, You canna change the laws of physics and pressure in the system will always be equal.  All these things do is limit flow, so the pressure downstream increases more slowly than the upstream pressure, but will still reach the same pressure.  To do it properly, you need a bias pedal box with two MCs, hence two systems, two pressures.   2, Don't we have a diagonally split system, so you're either repiping or fitting two?  

  What Andrew said....the the best way forward is the twin master cylinder set up with balance bar (I believe that there is somebody that makes one for the Elise...AI Tech?).   All the bias valve does is change the gradient of the line of force applied/to pressure produced, beyond the 'Knee Point', so given time, the down stream side (ie the rear braking circuit) would equalise pressure with the 'Up stream side (the front braking circuit).   Have tried the standard two pots on the rear (Steffens setup) and found far too much rear bias even with softer pads at the rear...have come to the conclusion that a dash adjustable balance bar is the way to go.   Dave

 

What pads were/are you running Dave? I was going to stick with pagids but lee suggests his balance was best with mix of cl5 and cl6

 

Was running CL5 on the fronts and Mintex 55 on the rears, and even then there was too much rear bias. However, it did not help, on removing one of the adaptor brackets from the rear uprights I found that burring on one of the mounting lugs indicated that perhaps the the bracket was not sitting flush on the hub carrier. That would have explained a certain excentricity between the disk and the calliper on rotation on one side...perhaps that side was unprogressive and biting more at times.

 

It certainly felt dangerous while on the wet track at Croft last year. Also the whole set up got very hot at the rear... due to the lack of air flow past the calipers/disk area.

 

The spot handbrake caliper, was of very good quality, however, with small pad area I doubt that it would get through the MOT??

 

Perhaps something from Hispec (although in the past thier reputation has not been good), a two pot caliper with an integral handbrake that acts on the full size pads, might be a solution. However that is more expense, plus the hand brake cables would then be a problem.

[kipper]

 

 

1, You canna change the laws of physics and pressure in the system will always be equal.  All these things do is limit flow, so the pressure downstream increases more slowly than the upstream pressure, but will still reach the same pressure.  To do it properly, you need a bias pedal box with two MCs, hence two systems, two pressures.

 

2, Don't we have a diagonally split system, so you're either repiping or fitting two?

 

What Andrew said....the the best way forward is the twin master cylinder set up with balance bar (I believe that there is somebody that makes one for the Elise...AI Tech?).

 

All the bias valve does is change the gradient of the line of force applied/to pressure produced, beyond the 'Knee Point', so given time, the down stream side (ie the rear braking circuit) would equalise pressure with the 'Up stream side (the front braking circuit).

 

Have tried the standard two pots on the rear (Steffens setup) and found far too much rear bias even with softer pads at the rear...have come to the conclusion that a dash adjustable balance bar is the way to go.

 

Dave

 

 

Sounds like you need one of these:

http://www.rallydesi...roducts_id=4062

Perhaps a couple of these:

http://www.rallydesi...oducts_id=16403

one of these:

http://www.rallydesi...roducts_id=4063

 

I got a pedal box off Joe to investigate this over summer.  They're easy enough to knock together, it's the bracketry tahts a ball ache.  You would probably have to ditch the servo too unless you get a remote version.

 

You're right about the biggest problem...the pedal box! Unless you could find one made specifically for the Elise its going to be a show stopper. The master cylinders and balance bar are easly sourced as you have said, and of course the servo would have to go... and not to mention interfacing the complexities of the ABS system...if at all it is possible,  perhaps just too much for a road/track car!

 

 

[FLD]

The elise one is different I think.  Our pedal box mounts to the top and has a separate plate for the cylinders.  Is'nt the elise one all in one?  Ditching the servo and going this route isn't too bad.  The abs has two lines in so you'd just use those direct from the cylinders.  My concern is space between throttle pedal and brake pedal for the balance bar and adjuster especially given that the stock brake pedal has that weird dog leg thing going on.

[techieboy]

Nitron did individual master cylinders and balance bar for their N2 project car from memory. Think it retained the drive by wire throttle too but possibly didn't have to contend with ABS. Not sure what Randy did on his Europa but Pilbeam might do something suitable though again they probably binned ABS.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

I ran Pagid pads for the last season in 2013, the PF pads were the season before. We did run a mix of compounds front to rear and Matt B would be able to tell you what they were.

 

My pedal travel was long but manageable and the sure as hell worked OK.

 

I did run a bias valve.

[FLD]

Any details on that bias valve Mike?  The nitron N2 project had a custom pedal made up to clear the gas pedal pot.

[Kieran McC]

The elise one is different I think.  Our pedal box mounts to the top and has a separate plate for the cylinders.  Is'nt the elise one all in one?  Ditching the servo and going this route isn't too bad.  The abs has two lines in so you'd just use those direct from the cylinders.  My concern is space between throttle pedal and brake pedal for the balance bar and adjuster especially given that the stock brake pedal has that weird dog leg thing going on.

Hoffmans do a Servo delete kit . JJJ ran one on his TA car for a short time.

[FLD]

I've had a read around and there are various solutions to this. 

1) new / modified clutch and brake pedals

2) pilbeam bespoke pedal box

3) servo delete which incorperates a swing arm and bias system

[Mike (Cliffie)]

I just had an AP in line valve that limited the initial pressure to the rears. Worked very well with my limited ability.

[SteveA]

 

Hoffmans do a Servo delete kit . JJJ ran one on his TA car for a short time.

 

 

And removed it almost immediately because he hated it.