109 replies to this topic

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Gaz,   Chill was probably wrong and he still uses the stock 3.8bar regulator. Plus 1.2 bar boost pressure, so he is at 5 bar/ 72psi railpressure @ max power in your example...

Yes 3.8 not 3 Misunderstanding from me 😳

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

And producing up to 2 bar of boost pressure Don't know if it matters but water injection is also going to be used next year by a few Is there a alternative pump available to do this ?

  2 bar of boost with a Harrop? You are way out of efficiency, only pumping hot air and don't think the piston rings will like it. I wouldn't go higher then 1.35 bar boost. Get the intake temp down that will make power!

  

Not me I'm sticking to at lot less than that Was thinking more for the 2.0 harrops on a small pulley with water/ meth injection

Was trying to make a wores serñario

[Spitfire Engineering]

 

 

And producing up to 2 bar of boost pressure Don't know if it matters but water injection is also going to be used next year by a few Is there a alternative pump available to do this ?

  2 bar of boost with a Harrop? You are way out of efficiency, only pumping hot air and don't think the piston rings will like it. I wouldn't go higher then 1.35 bar boost. Get the intake temp down that will make power!

  

Not me I'm sticking to at lot less than that Was thinking more for the 2.0 harrops on a small pulley with water/ meth injection

Was trying to make a wores serñario

 

 

OK, so what power do you hope to make at 5 bar?

[Spitfire Engineering]

And as a more generic question what is the most anyone can sensibly make from these engines and at what rail pressure?

400bhp at 5 bar?

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

More about duty cycle on the injector

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

We have only just started to exploit the Harrop supercharge setup Heat has always been the restriction Along with noise Also I don't think many gave yet played with e85 or race fuel I'm thinking 430 hp could be on the cards over the next 2 -3 years

[Speedy4Fun]

Not me I'm sticking to at lot less than that Was thinking more for the 2.0 harrops on a small pulley with water/ meth injection

 

Ah, ok we see around 1,35 bar with 2.0, harrop standard pulley and 2,5" exhaust with cat.

[smiley]

 

Ah, ok we see around 1,35 bar with 2.0, harrop standard pulley and 2,5" exhaust with cat.

 

 

What is considered a standard pully for a harrop?

 

Edited by smiley, 29 November 2015 - 03:15 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Think 3.15 is standard But could always go biggger 3.3?

[Exmantaa]

(80mm was/is the standard Harrop pulley)

 

Regarding boost/power, you're forgetting the high HP turbo Z22SE conversions that will probably exceed 400Hp and 1.5 bar boostpressure, but let's assume these are so custom build they know what to modify.

 

400Hp with a Harrop sc will be a challenge to keep the power up (heatwise). Most likely these will also be bigger volume engines that still can run @ max 1.3-1.4 bar boost. (at least I don't want to go much higher than that.)

And there will be not many of them build.

 

Edited by Exmantaa, 29 November 2015 - 03:38 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

(80mm was/is the standard Harrop pulley)

 

Regarding boost/power, you're forgetting the high HP turbo Z22SE conversions that will probably exceed 400Hp and 1.5 bar boostpressure, but let's assume these are so custom build they know what to modify.

 

400Hp with a Harrop sc will be a challenge to keep the power up (heatwise). Most likely these will also be bigger volume engines that still can run @ max 1.3-1.4 bar boost. (at least I don't want to go much higher than that.)

And there will be not many of them build.

 

 

There has been a few playing with different inlet manifold designs  ( ie sandwich plates etc )

water meth injection is becoming more common  (= more power )

if temps can be controlled smaller pulleys and higher compression could be possible 

 

plus there is some 2.3 and 2.4 builds going on which could see some other power gains 

i really dont think 400 hp is a long way off 

and then a extra 30 hp is a drop in the ocean 

 

plus i think the secrets & discoverys  are being shared more freely so think this will accelerate the development 

 

if we step back a couple of years 320hp was a big achievement 

 

plus the more harrop builds that happen things will also move forward 

[Exmantaa]

Was more related to Gaz, as there will be only a very limited number of "400+hp VX-es" that need extra special care in the fuel department, The bigger lot of SC's will range from 260 to ~320 (and standaard 3.8 bar rail pressure). A few of us are stretching that to 340-370 BHP and above that you need to think things very well through.

 

E85 though is something else with a Harrop...

[Spitfire Engineering]

(80mm was/is the standard Harrop pulley)

 

Regarding boost/power, you're forgetting the high HP turbo Z22SE conversions that will probably exceed 400Hp and 1.5 bar boostpressure, but let's assume these are so custom build they know what to modify.

 

400Hp with a Harrop sc will be a challenge to keep the power up (heatwise). Most likely these will also be bigger volume engines that still can run @ max 1.3-1.4 bar boost. (at least I don't want to go much higher than that.)

And there will be not many of them build.

 

 

Thanks

Well that clears up the pump selection at least as the pump spec shown above will cope with anything, including a 20% margin up to 504bhp NA

and SC 420bhp.

By dropping back to a 3 bar system with a 1.5 boost you are looking at 530bhp NA and 445bhp SC both with a full 20% margin

If you drop the margin to 15% you can get 473bhp SC

 

Anything under this simply increases the margin.

But if the new unit can suply what you need with a 20% margin it is a much better setup.

 

Good enough I think, and quite reasonable as £210 includes the new pump and all the other components. The work includes testing the original unit for conversion, cleaning, adapting the unit, installing the new pump and filter, wiring harness, new seals and then checking.

Some small problems with the sender can sometimes be sorted as well.

 

Gaz

[Spitfire Engineering]

Was more related to Gaz, as there will be only a very limited number of "400+hp VX-es" that need extra special care in the fuel department, The bigger lot of SC's will range from 260 to ~320 (and standaard 3.8 bar rail pressure). A few of us are stretching that to 340-370 BHP and above that you need to think things very well through.

 

E85 though is something else with a Harrop...

 

Bit of a dilema now for you, the old pump is not E85 compliant for sure, the new one is.

But it really depends how you use your car wether it is likely to become a real issue.

 

Gaz

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I'm not even sure the original tank is e85 compatible But the gst 450 is The next step then may well be new tank and external pump It's clear you have done a lot of research and work on this and sure s people move on with there builds you are going to get a few phone calls And deffo think anyone who is thinking of getting a new fuel pump should speak to you first Instead of just throwing what fits in Cheers for the info

[The Batman]

Pro alloy do a nice tank with inlet/outlet for external pump etc

[Acidpopstar]

Anyone been running one of these pumps and can report back on noise levels etc? Need to buy a pump of some sort for my 260bhp SC ASAP.

[Acidpopstar]

Screw it, spoke to Gaz and bought one. I'll report back here once it's fitted and I've had chance to use it on track.

[sam220T]

Thinking I need to renew my pump due to age so interested in your findings. Keep us posted. 

[Spitfire Engineering]

They are quiet, same as the OE pumps when new, when you consider they shift twice the fuel thats quite impressive.

 

Gaz