1266 replies to this topic

[Doctor Ed]

so aside from running out of a couple of sizes of hose clamps... shes kindve done 

 

well, that, and ive ordered an ez-bleed which hasnt turned up yet, so brakes and clutch arent bled, but the hardware side of things is finished* 

 

*atleast finished enough to get the motor running, plus steer and stop for transport

 

still a bunch of stuff to do, but engine noises come first

Edited by Doctor Ed, 06 May 2018 - 12:48 AM.

[Doctor Ed]

For future reference, after much deliberation settled on the following fluids... Motor: GM Dexos1 gen 2 5W-30 API SN + RC (genuine oem) Gearbox: Ford GL4 75W-90 1790199 (genuine oem, equiv Motorcraft XT-M5-QS) Brakes/clutch: Motul RBF660 DOT4 101666 Coolant: Toyota LLC Concentrate (red) 08889-80015

Edited by Doctor Ed, 08 May 2018 - 08:50 PM.

[tibby]

Gearbox: Ford GL4 75W-90 1790199 (genuine oem, equiv Motorcraft XT-M5-QS) interesting choice. Any experience with this oil ?

[Doctor Ed]

none. but i wanted a straight GL4 oil (syncro box, no LSD) and people seem to rave about the Motorcraft 75-90. turns out that this OEM Ford oil is infact the Motorcraft stuff, so i thought id give it a go

[Doctor Ed]

bleed the brakes, they said. itll be quick and easy, they said.

*sends off order for new brake master cylinder* (seems an internal port is blocked and i cant get it apart). At least the master cyl is a relatively common part across multiple platforms (eg A3 and TT) so a brand new FTE only cost me 40

ps, the $10 ebay pressure bleeder is an absolute fcuking piece of junk. Have basically rebuilt it from scratch and even then it only barely just works. Leaks brake fluid everywhere like a motherfucker. Not even the original lid fit on the original bottle the threads are so loose and wonky. Theres so little of the original left, dont even bother.

Edited by Doctor Ed, 10 May 2018 - 08:53 AM.

[Nev]

the $10 ebay pressure bleeder is an absolute fcuking piece of junk.

"Cheapskate". Touche! I bought one too many moons ago and regretted it as well, though it does help a bit providing I get some pressure in it.

Edited by Nev, 10 May 2018 - 01:08 PM.

[Doctor Ed]

lol, thats touche?! when i try it with my vacuum cleaner and a length of garden hose, then you can touche me

[ChrisS1]

lol, thats touche?! when i try it with my vacuum cleaner and a length of garden hose, then you can touche me

Edited by ChrisS1, 10 May 2018 - 08:37 PM.

[SteveA]

I made my own bleeder from a garden weed spayer pressure bottle, a Vectra brake fluid cap from the scrappy and a load of araldite. Worked a treat. I only changed it as it was pretty massive and you couldn't tell how much pressure you were putting in. Plus I got an easi-bleed for £15

[fezzasus]

For future reference, after much deliberation settled on the following fluids... Motor: GM Dexos1 gen 2 5W-30 API SN + RC (genuine oem) Gearbox: Ford GL4 75W-90 1790199 (genuine oem, equiv Motorcraft XT-M5-QS) Brakes/clutch: Motul RBF660 DOT4 101666 Coolant: Toyota LLC Concentrate (red) 08889-80015

 

what made you pick Dexos 1 rather than Dexos 2? In all likelihood you'll be paying over the odds for an inferior oil (spec is mainly North American so it's rarer and hence more expensive in Europe)

[Doctor Ed]

Gen2 Dexos 1 has better LSPI protection than Dexos 2. Dexos 2 is appropriate for NA and diesel motors only. originally GM tried to make simple dexos 2 the EU wide norm, but subsequently* revised the specification specifically for direct injection turbo motors making the dexos 1 gen2 the OEM specification (*updated specification from 2017 i think. cant find the original tech release)

 

and its wasnt particularly expensive. about €20 for 5L genuine GM

Edited by Doctor Ed, 13 May 2018 - 07:59 PM.

[fezzasus]

Gen2 Dexos 1 has better LSPI protection than Dexos 2. Dexos 2 is appropriate for NA and diesel motors only. originally GM tried to make simple dexos 2 the EU wide norm, but subsequently* revised the specification specifically for direct injection turbo motors making the dexos 1 gen2 the OEM specification (*updated specification from 2017 i think. cant find the original tech release)

 

and its wasnt particularly expensive. about €20 for 5L genuine GM

 

So i'll qualify this by stating that I design crankcase oil.

 

the GM LSPI test is awful; broadly the rule for LSPI is that calcium (found in the additive detergent) is bad and magnesium (also in the detergent) is neutral, you have to balance the two to meet LSPI performance while maintaining detergency in other tests. Well one of our competitors managed to bounce (test enough to get a pass) an all calcium oil through this test. They've now been forced to reformulate, however it serves as an example of how poor the test is as a performance defining test.

 

Most OEMs have their own LSPI test; PSA, Daimler and Ford to name a fiew. none of them are perfect, but you're not forced to pick the Dexos 1 product

 

Unless you're planning on running very high load at low RPM, I wouldn't be concerned about LSPI anyway. Odds are your mapping will assume a degree of overfuelling at this point in the map which will protect you much more than any oil type. Industry testing has show that overfuelling is a much more robust protection than any other solution, but obviously not possible in a world of stringent emission tests (fun fact - did you know that port fuel engines can have much higher LSPI than direct injection? It's only the optimisation of the map in that area that has lead to modern engines experiencing LSPI)

 

Dexos 2 is certainly suitable for TC engines; the current GM branded oil is still provided as factory fill for all Opel models, as well as factory fill for many major European OEMs (across diesel, NA and TC gasoline models).

 

The difference between Dexos 1 and Dexos 2 is that the former is based on an American API SN (soon SP) oil specification, which is a commodity product, it's low cost, short oil drain and often utilises poor quality base oil because america has a large volume of group II suppliers. GM boost this performance with their own tests, but are limited to porting a European sludge test across, adding their own (non performance defining) high temperature oxidation test, and (variable) LSPI test. Dexos 2 is based on a European specification (ACEA C3) which mixes gasoline and diesel requirements, adds the same oxidation test and (soon) will add their own LSPI test. The European ACEA C3 base performance is much, much higher than the american case, and the specific GM tests do not significantly lift performance for either category. 

 

In reality, if you want protection for turbocharged engines you need to move away from GM oils entirely. The only OEMs that offer turbocharger testing are BMW and Toyota; the Toyota test is a dog while BMW have two tests, one of which is very well controlled and actually allows formulators to design an oil for the test, the others are too variable. Often you'll find oils with both BMW and Opel Dexos 2 claims which will bring in this added protection.

 

In short, Dexos 1 spec oils are relatively low quality due to being based on API industry tests rather than ACEA. The LSPI benefit for your application is minimal but the compromises you'll be making to durability will be quite high. I wouldn't recommend it.

[Doctor Ed]

 

Dexos 2 is certainly suitable for TC engines; the current GM branded oil is still provided as factory fill for all Opel models, as well as factory fill for many major European OEMs (across diesel, NA and TC gasoline models).

 

 

 

not according to the 2017 GM tech bulletin that i read regarding the retraction of dexos 2 as the recommended oil for use in the DI turbo motors (from build year 2014 onward at least), advising that all subsequent fills should be dexos 1 gen 2. edit, one (german) version of he tech bulletin below stating effectively immediately (june 2017) the listed motors should be drained and refilled with dexos1 gen 2

 

the first oil fill is for the dogs anyway, and will be dumped relatively quickly.

 

name me a dexos 2 that i should run?

 

Edited by Doctor Ed, 13 May 2018 - 09:40 PM.

[fezzasus]

 

 

Dexos 2 is certainly suitable for TC engines; the current GM branded oil is still provided as factory fill for all Opel models, as well as factory fill for many major European OEMs (across diesel, NA and TC gasoline models).

 

 

 

not according to the 2017 GM tech bulletin that i read regarding the retraction of dexos 2 as the recommended oil for use in the DI turbo motors (from build year 2014 onward at least), advising that all subsequent fills should be dexos 1 gen 2. edit, one (german) version of he tech bulletin below stating effectively immediately (june 2017) the listed motors should be drained and refilled with dexos1 gen 2

 

the first oil fill is for the dogs anyway, and will be dumped relatively quickly.

 

name me a dexos 2 that i should run?

 

 

 

That's entirely driven by the LSPI needs which i've already said aren't an issue with your engine map and operation. Speaking more generally, the chemistry in the factory fill Dexos 2 oil is suitable for modern gasoline engines, in fact it's probably the highest volume oil technology in the market globally including many direct injection engines.

 

Personally I would drop the LSPI requirement, I understand how you've got to identifying a need for it, however it's really not applicable under your conditions. I also don't see a need for Dexos 2 claim set - Dexos is mostly an exercise in collecting licensing fees rather than delivering improved performance.

I'd want MB229.51 or 229.52 claims and/or VW 504 00/507 00. These specifications fully inspect engines for any issues after running an oil rather than a few defined parameters (for example, there could be bearing or turbocharger issues but the test may only inspect and rate for piston deposits).

BMW LL-04 has two turbocharger parameters, so look for that

If you still want your Dexos 1 performance then look for API SN in combination with Dexos 2 - the combination will have the same key tests at the same limits of Dexos 1 (LSPI excluded)

 

In general I recommend Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 for high performance gasoline and wouldn't change my recommendation here, also consider Shell Helix Ultra c2/C3 0W-30  or Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 which I would describe as a performance benchmark for any oil (expensive though).

[Doctor Ed]

I found a decently priced Helix Ultra Profressional 5W-30 that seems to tick the boxes you outlined above. only things that makes me a bit nervous is the absense of LSPI specification. I know what you mean about this car unlikely being a candiate, but im not sure im 100% just ignoring LSPI as an issue - theres so much handwaving about it, and itd be a bit sh*t if i kill a Piston having decided against an LSPI specific oil

Edited by Doctor Ed, 18 May 2018 - 08:02 AM.

[Doctor Ed]

- new master cyl turned up and got installed. Brakes bled with the bastardised pressure bleeder as far as posible without the required electro-do-hicky to activate and bleed the ABS module properly. Need to literally wait for skids to be able to bleed the Brakes properly - clutch is bled - actually easier than anticipated, and my fears regarding slave throw and diaphragm ditance etc were unfounded. everything works sweet. going to put a clutch stop in anyway, but for the time being everything works - fluids are in! - rewelded some bits on the exhast following an issue with an O2 sensor bung. all good now, new elbow is in, everything is straight and ready to be purge welded - missing a few hose clamps for the intercooler piping, but ive ebay a few more and hopefully theyll be here on time - odds and ends tidied up/finished almost ready for the sucker to be picked up for transport!

[fezzasus]

I found a decently priced Helix Ultra Profressional 5W-30 that seems to tick the boxes you outlined above. only things that makes me a bit nervous is the absense of LSPI specification. I know what you mean about this car unlikely being a candiate, but im not sure im 100% just ignoring LSPI as an issue - theres so much handwaving about it, and itd be a bit sh*t if i kill a Piston having decided against an LSPI specific oil

 

 

An LSPI capable oil doesn't mean you're protected against it, just that the number of LSPI events on the day it was conducted was low. Best protection you can give is making the map slightly richer at high load, low RPM.

[Doctor Ed]

So... ready for wiring!

Lots of loose ends tied up, more than I had anticipated, but I think we're good to go! Clutch stop, brake rod clevis, battery charged, tyre pressure, battery cutoff cable, w2a pump harness, intercooler hose clamps, dump flange nuts, v-bands, roof bolts. Engined filled with oil, coolant circuit checked and filled with concentrate (need to add water to fill). 1/4 tank of 100RON Shell. Gearbox oil I didn't manage to get around to...

[Doctor Ed]

Startup checklist: - weld intake pipework - weld exhaust pipework - make & weld intake pipe pre-throttle MAP/Temp Sensor mounting flange - kill-switch harness (supplied) - rollover switch harness (suppplied) - w2a pump harness (supplied) - power to the 044 (harness already finished in position) - prime the fuel surge tank with the 044 disabled - then prime and purge dead-head fuel line with the 044 running - fill coolant circuit with water, purge plus post running purge and fill - fill gearbox oil (3L supplied) - ecu harness (der!) - start switch bypass (run the starter through the ignition barrel) Cross fingers and go! Post initial run-in to-do list: - trim and bead the intake piping - wrinkle coat top intercooler pipe - ceramic coat dump pipe - way more ... but can wait till later

Edited by Doctor Ed, 19 May 2018 - 09:57 PM.

[Doctor Ed]