66 replies to this topic

[Lingonberry]

Hi good folks!

As the topic hints I'm just curious about the B207.

 

1. Why do some of you change engine to the B207?

2. What are the pros and cons in comparison to the Z22/Z20?

3. Why do you supercharge the B207 and not turbo? Isn't the B207 a turbocharged engine from the beginning?

 

I'm sure this has been covered at some point in this forums history, but searching B207 here is like searching "supercharger": a million threads with a million pages each...

[Nev]

I think a key reason was that brand new B207 engines were being sold off super cheap by Neo Brothers.

 

As it's a turbo engine its a bit stronger than the Z22SE NA engine, with pistons + rings +waterways designed for boost and more heat. It's form factor is much the same as a Z22 and it mates to a F23 gearbox easily, so its a nice and easy change really. Also many of it's parts are interchangeable with the Z22SE.

 

I think a lot of people supercharge them as it is an easy kit to fit, once their old Z22SE engine dies they take advantage of putting a new B207 engine in with a supercharger for an extra 100 or 150 HP for a couple of thousand pounds more. Very cost effective really and brings the car alive.

Edited by Nev, 18 May 2018 - 06:46 AM.

[Rosssco]

Nev covered most of the important points above.

 

Cheap brand new engines

Designed to be forced-induction (stronger internal components, improved cylinder head, improved oil and water cooling)

Fits directly in place of existing Z22SE engine, and inter-changability of parts (some modifications to make it fit however)

 

The B207 DOES come supercharged (or a slight variant of), its called a LSJ engine which is a US domestic market only I believe.  

 

You can install the turbo version, but the positioning of the OEM turbo means you have to modify the boot to create more space for it to fit. Plus many prefer an NA or SC for its more linear torque output and response.

[Lingonberry]

Oh, I see! Thanks for the replies guys 

[smiley]

As above, there is limited room to put a turbo due to space between the engine and the boot. (On the vx220 turbo the turbo is on the other side of the engine) That means a lot of custom work, and live with a small turbo, or chop the boot.

In europe, only dbilas in Germany does turbo conversions (a 260 and a 300 system).

As an SC conversion is 99% bolt on stuff i think most consider that to be easier to diy.

 

Swapping to a B207 does require some homework to get a good understanding of that needs to be done.

Hitec Germany does B207 swaps if you are not handy. If you want to do diy, make sure to read up plenty. 

 

 

Edited by smiley, 18 May 2018 - 07:58 AM.

[vocky]

The main reason for buying a B207 engine was to create a stronger Z22SE engine, by using the B207 as a donor and converting it to a 2.2

 

However the brand new B207 engines are coming to an end, they are nearly all gone now.

 

They are only a few people who have fitted the 2.0 engine, due to the crank trigger wheel pattern being totally different to the z22se ECUs requirements

[smiley]

Was the loot not devided by Neo Brothers in the UK and Saab Partners in the Netherlands?

Ie there may be some more in NL, as we did not do that many group buys from there?

 

Edited by smiley, 18 May 2018 - 07:39 AM.

[vocky]

Neos told me they had three months of stock left, selling at the current rate and that was a month ago

[Exmantaa]

2. What are the pros and cons in comparison to the Z22/Z20?

 

Pro = Stronger pistons and rods. The standard 2.0 internals can cope with ~350ps. It's a shorter stroke so can rev higher (with valve springs) than a Z22SE. The B207 head is a different casting method (sandcast) and less phrone to cracking.

 

Con = needs a conversion for the crank trigger (internal or external). 200cc less volume, so for an SC you can get more power with a 2200cc engine.

 

So  there are 2 different routes for the VX;

- Use the B207 as a component donor and fit 2.2 crank wih forged rods and pistons; creating a "new" Z22SE engine with sandcast head. Good for max ~400Hp. (but this is basically a full engine rebuild...)

 

- Use the B207 in stock form (with an external Z22Se triggerwheel) and live with a bit less torquey motor. Sofar it's reliable to ~350HP.  

Edited by Exmantaa, 18 May 2018 - 07:50 AM.

[Lingonberry]

Okay, so the B207 is more of a high power-chase engine, and if you can totally live with 250 bhp that an ordinary stage 2 gives there's no real reason to switch to the B207 (if your Z22 isn't broken)?

Edited by Lingonberry, 18 May 2018 - 07:57 AM.

[smiley]

Yes. 250 is considered the Z22se sweet spot as it requires the least amount of tinkering. Best bang for bucks.

(More requires new rods and pistons, bigger exhaust, better fuelpump etc etc)

 

Edited by smiley, 18 May 2018 - 08:02 AM.

[Rosssco]

200cc less volume, so for an SC you can get more power with a 2200cc engine.

  Slight aside, but having transferred from using a 2.4 (that's a different engine, to not confuse the OP!) to a 2.0 recently, both using a 3.1" pulley, there subjectively feels little or no difference when the SC is fully 'on boost', although you can notice a bit of a drop off in torque very early in the rpm's (sub-2k) before the SC gets to work. I also need to do some calibration work, plus the rev's pick up a little better on the 2.0..

[siztenboots]

how does compression compare?

[siztenboots]

how does compression compare?

[Rosssco]

Okay, so the B207 is more of a high power-chase engine, and if you can totally live with 250 bhp that an ordinary stage 2 gives there's no real reason to switch to the B207 (if your Z22 isn't broken)?

  Z22SE is fine usually for ~250-260bhp. Although my original 2.2 bent a rod at ~240bhp.. For extra piece of mind, some fit forged conrods to give a better safety margin.

[Rosssco]

how does compression compare?

  B207 - 9.5:1

Z22SE - 10:1

LE5 - 10.4:1

[piwo]

why not z22se?

-a crunching head from the screwing of the candle and pouring water into the head

-weak pistons rings and oil-consuming engine

-pits are created on the cylinders

-no oil spray on the bottom of the piston by which the pistons from the temperature is made oval, the buckles break

[TFD]

So if you want 250ish bhp then beat the crap out of your z22se and buy a b207 as a spare while you still can. Only when it breaks you can convert to b207.

 

If you drop in a new b207 and fcuk up you're only left with the z22... Better be left with a new b207.

 

[SteveB]

How much is a B207 new?

[smiley]

https://www.neobroth...trol-4670-p.asp