66 replies to this topic

[Exmantaa]

Ow, let's up that number a bit :

 

Basically the same mods as Smiley on a stock B207 block, but with ZZP stage 2 cams and a bit more tuning on the ignition timing.

(needs water injection though, as power drops when the intake air gets warmer....)

[Hopegreen]

No oil issues with this setup I guess.

 

With this numbers it seems that the way to go is b207 with external trigger, cams, ... but stock internals

Edited by Hopegreen, 26 September 2018 - 03:35 PM.

[smiley]

I keep chucking loads in my catchcan via the cam cover breather, but had the same problem when i was on my Z22SE.
I use the car 95% for track only.

Edited by smiley, 26 September 2018 - 03:36 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Here I see mine
2.2 ( z22se ) with wi and 3.1 pulley



No serious oil issues ( does use a bit as it's forged )
Engine currently turned down to approx 351 hp due to the unknown limits of the block

[smiley]

Ow, let's up that number a bit :

 

 

Is that your lsj, or rob's B207R?
 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I'm not sure how the 2.0 are getting on but some of the smaller pulley cars over here seem to have heavy breathing issues

[smiley]

I think it would be a good practice when building a new engine, to add an extra breather connector to the cam cover.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

I've kept mine with vacuum on cam cover ( oem )

[Exmantaa]

 

Ow, let's up that number a bit :

 

 

Is that your lsj, or rob's B207R?
 

 

 

That is my old 2.0 "LSJ" on the MAHA dyno and GM LSJ ecu    (LSJ = US GM version of supercharged 2.0 B207)

 

 

The Supercharged 2.0 vs 2.2 debate will go on...

 

Yes ultimately you can make more max power with the extra 200cc of a 2.2, but you will need to build the lower block with forged rods & pistons (+gaskets +new stretchbolts)  Can have oil breathing issues due to forged piston clearance/material...

 

The stock 2.0 internals are strong enough for ~350, but needs external changes on crank trigger to work with the 2.2 ecu (OBD) + some oil hose re-routing... (but is nice to have a swappable spare B207 block in the garage. )

 

And for max power both will need some head porting (exhaust only) + cams/springs.

 

 

(The 2.0 seems to behave a bit more rev happy than a 2.2, but a torquye 2.2 will be easier on the road.)

[Vladimir]

 

May I extend the topic and gather some info on the biggest possible pulley size for supercharging a stock Z22SE and a stock B207R with Harrop 1320?

 

With an oem harrop pully of 3.15", you would reach 250'isch at around 5000 rpm. (Which is the limitation of the stock z22se)

I have not seen people use bigger. Mostly smaller.

The combination of the harrop and the stock Z22SE is not very logical.

 

I'm asking because I have new harrop lying in the box and was thinking to try it on the car with less changes possible first.

Car will be drivable and in the mean time I could collect some foundings and build forged B207. 

[smiley]

Biggest looks like a 3.8 http://www.smoothflo...TVS_Pulley.html

Maybe look around for more options. Iirc a stage 1 for an M62 used a 4" pully in Germany.

In the end you will have to protect your engine at 260isch bhp using a max rpm.
I take it you will on obdtuner to control that?

 

Edited by smiley, 26 September 2018 - 07:37 PM.

[Exmantaa]

The harrop has ~1.3mm  bigger volume than M62 (with 3.35"pulley) , so that means you'll need around 110mm pulley to use it somewhat safe on the 2.2...

 

Buy yourself a cheap M62 charger and enjoy the 2.2 while building the other engine.

[smiley]

I understand the itch to unwrap that 2k harrop, but a used M62 without the manifold is just a few hundred euro's.

 

[chris]

214 Bhp at Wheel is not a lot for a 350 Bhp engine !

 

Efficiency of supercharged engine seems very poor !

 

Equivalent 350 Bhp turbo engine with semi slick tyres let you at least 260 BHP at wheels

 

[smiley]

Maha dyno always gives a weird wheel bhp that should be ignored.
It's roughly 17% less that is wheelpower, so 290.

[Doctor Ed]

Maha dyno always gives a weird wheel bhp that should be ignored.
It's roughly 17% less that is wheelpower, so 290.

 

so its an engine dyno? hows is the engine figure correct, and the wheel figure wrong?

[smiley]

That is the million dollar question.

The tuner we used could not explain it either. Seems to be a maha specfic thing.

On one of those days they also had a stock astra i believe on the dyno. The bhp was exactly as factory. The whp way off.

 

[vocky]

rolling road figures should always be taken as a rough guide, it's how they drive on the road which matters

 

To be blunt the 2.0 B207 SC feels "less" than a same spec z22se SC and the 2.4 feels "more"

[The Batman]

rolling road figures should always be taken as a rough guide, it's how they drive on the road which matters

Said only by every NA driver

[Rosssco]

 

 

To be blunt the 2.0 B207 SC feels "less" than a same spec z22se SC and the 2.4 feels "more"

 

Can I add my 2p and caveat that a little (as effectively I've tried all these combo's in the same car with virtually the same parts over the last 3 years).

 

Broadly agree, although the difference in performance is primarily in available torque in the sub 2-2.5k rpm range. Below this, the larger capacity (and higher comp) engines feel meatier, which makes sense, but as the SC starts to get into its stride, the difference really feel negligible, certainly on the road. 

 

Again, its a bit of a sliding scale on response, 2.0 feeling more responsive, 2.4 feeling lazier and a touch slower to rev towards the red-line (certainly not too bad though). Again makes sense as the crank weights go up as does the stroke!