66 replies to this topic

[SteveB]

Thanks - not a bad price and tempting as I’ve recently bought an NA SC and don’t really know too much about it’s history so will be good to have a spare in stock. And I love an engine swap project

[Hopegreen]

Just a quick question,

I already have a stage 2 Z22SE with m62, deleted balacer shafts, tullet 3", spitfire fuel pump, blue OPC injectors, dual pass mod

 

Wich is the best way to go for 280hp:

1. Z22SE + m62 + deleted balancer shafts + forged conrods + cams + stiffer springs 

2. saab b207 stock internals + deleted balancer shafts + m62 + 2.2 crank + cams + stiffer springs

 

Cheers,

HGr

[Rosssco]

Just a quick question,
I already have a stage 2 Z22SE with m62, deleted balacer shafts, tullet 3", spitfire fuel pump, blue OPC injectors, dual pass mod
 
Wich is the best way to go for 280hp:
1. Z22SE + m62 + deleted balancer shafts + forged conrods + cams + stiffer springs 
2. saab b207 stock internals + deleted balancer shafts + m62 + 2.2 crank + cams + stiffer springs
 
Cheers,
HGr

 
Just fit a set of forged rods. A smaller 3.0 or 3.1" pulley and correct calibration should do the rest.

 

No need to swap the rest of the engine for that sort of power level.

Edited by Rosssco, 25 September 2018 - 08:16 AM.

[Hopegreen]

 

Just a quick question,
I already have a stage 2 Z22SE with m62, deleted balacer shafts, tullet 3", spitfire fuel pump, blue OPC injectors, dual pass mod
 
Wich is the best way to go for 280hp:
1. Z22SE + m62 + deleted balancer shafts + forged conrods + cams + stiffer springs 
2. saab b207 stock internals + deleted balancer shafts + m62 + 2.2 crank + cams + stiffer springs
 
Cheers,
HGr

 
Just fit a set of forged rods. A smaller 3.0 or 3.1" pulley and correct calibration should do the rest.

 

No need to swap the rest of the engine for that sort of power level.

 

Thank you for the answer but I would like to add that in Spain we have checked several times our power figures and we realised that a complete stage 2 fine tuned as mine is around 245hp instead of the 260hp announced everywhere.

 

Assuming this difference of power maybe I should ask for 300hp (280 Spanish hp). 

So, let me ask again:

 

Wich is the best way to go for 300hp:
1. Z22SE + m62 + deleted balancer shafts + forged conrods + cams + stiffer springs 
2. saab b207 stock internals + deleted balancer shafts + m62 + 2.2 crank + cams + stiffer springs

 

Thank you,

HGr

[smiley]

I think there is no "best way", as both can do that.

 

Z22SE oem limitations, are rods (around 270), pistons (around 300) and cilinder walls (around 400)

 

B207 "asumed" oem limitations are around 350. (We are still trying to better understand and push the limits here. One of the Dutch is on 364bhp)

Due to the unclarity of the B207 limitations, enforced rods and pistons are also used.

The Z22SE crank is sometimes re-used to create a 2.2 versus 2.0. (10% more displacement)

 

If you have an old Z22SE, you need to do some math on parts costs and labour to bring it to a safe 300.
If you use a B207, you need to do some math on conversion costs, and make a choice for 2.2 or 2.0 (and the costs that come with that)

  

Edited by smiley, 25 September 2018 - 11:44 AM.

[Hopegreen]

I think there is no "best way", as both can do that.

 

Z22SE oem limitations, are rods (around 270), pistons (around 300) and cilinder walls (around 400)

 

B207 "asumed" oem limitations are around 350. (We are still trying to better understand and push the limits here. One of the Dutch is on 364bhp)

Due to the unclarity of the B207 limitations, enforced rods and pistons are also used.

The Z22SE crank is sometimes re-used to create a 2.2 versus 2.0. (10% more displacement)

 

If you have an old Z22SE, you need to do some math on parts costs and labour to bring it to a safe 300.
If you use a B207, you need to do some math on conversion costs, and make a choice for 2.2 or 2.0 (and the costs that come with that)

 

Thank you again!

 

Currently I have two z22se engines. The one in the car and another one in the shelf with only 40k km.

I want to make the next step but heard too many things about oil issues with forged pistons therefore I'm looking for something working on OEM pistons.

B207 seems to have better cooling and better piston rings.

 

Maybe I've done a wrong assumption and the option 2 doesn't make sense, is it possible to fit the 2.2 crank with the OEM b207 rods?

Edited by Hopegreen, 25 September 2018 - 12:06 PM.

[smiley]

Afaik the answer is no, but wait for Vocky to pop in and answer that.

 

I only got experience from another dutch guy with aftermarket pistons on his Z22SE, that basically ended up with an oilboat.
Vocky on the other hand reported aftermarket piston conversions that were just fine.  

 

When i had to make my choice, i choose for oem B207 just to be sure.

 

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Rods are different
Would need custom to make them work

[Rosssco]

If you have no issues with your current 2.2 engine, then the cheapest way is simply to fit stronger rods to your existing installed engine, and up the supercharger flow by fitting a smaller pulley. Check the condition of pistons and rings while removed.

 

If you want to spend a little more, ideal time to send your cylinder head to Vocky for some porting (or DIY), fit a slightly thicker B207 head gasket (brings CR down a little - a bit safer if you experience high ambient temps in Spain!), and maybe some cams (even standard LSJ cams will help optimise power at the expense of a little low down torque), but really not necessary for your target.

[Hopegreen]

Thank you all!

So I will stay with Z22SE and fit forged rods, cams,head gasket and valve springs.

I have plenty of time since I crashed the car against a wall during a trackday, I'm only planning my return.

[vocky]

for sub 300bhp you only need some Eagle steel rods, the standard pistons should get a new set of rings whilst they are out

 

Forged pistons are required for 300+ bhp

 

Personally I would advise you stick with a z22se or build a 2.2 / B207 hybrid

 

Uprated valve springs are only required if you want to rev past 7000 (if new standard springs you should get 7200 rpm), old springs get weak.

[Hopegreen]

Thanks Vocky

[Vladimir]

May I extend the topic and gather some info on the biggest possible pulley size for supercharging a stock Z22SE and a stock B207R with Harrop 1320?

[Hopegreen]

According to this maps I wouldn't rev m62 over 13500rpm (crank pulley diameter is 165mm)

Edited by Hopegreen, 26 September 2018 - 11:30 AM.

[smiley]

May I extend the topic and gather some info on the biggest possible pulley size for supercharging a stock Z22SE and a stock B207R with Harrop 1320?

 

With an oem harrop pully of 3.15", you would reach 250'isch at around 5000 rpm. (Which is the limitation of the stock z22se)

I have not seen people use bigger. Mostly smaller.

The combination of the harrop and the stock Z22SE is not very logical.

 

Edited by smiley, 26 September 2018 - 12:07 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

You would be ok with Saab standard internals

[smiley]

I run 335, and another dutch guy runs 364 on stock B207R

[Hopegreen]

I run 335, and another dutch guy runs 364 on stock B207R

335hp looks amazing.

What is your setup?

[smiley]

B207R, ported head, zzp stage 1 cams, balance shafts removed, dbilas stronger valve springs.

Harrop 1320 with stock 3.15" pully, cooled by pro alloy charge cooler, dual pass mod, phenolic spacer.

Bosh EV14 injectors, tmap, 3 bar fpr, NGK BKR8EIX sparkplugs, Tullet 2.5" exhaust.

Still running a very safe basemap, hence the "low" power. (I am planning on water injection, then getting the ignition near 350)

 

My M62 on a 3.05" versus my harrop with a 3.15" pully. Both on my B207:

 

And if you like looking at pictures, here is my M62 conversion thread:
https://www.speedste....php?f=8&t=4568
And my Saab project thread.
https://www.speedste....php?f=8&t=6115

 

 

 

Edited by smiley, 26 September 2018 - 02:21 PM.

[Hopegreen]

I will take a look