Jump to content


Photo

Help.. Bent Woodruff Key.. Z22Se


  • Please log in to reply
37 replies to this topic

#1 tommobot

tommobot

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Stratford Upon Avon

Posted 22 September 2019 - 05:04 PM

I have a sneaky suspicion that somehow when tightening up the crank pulley the Woodruff key has bent.

Essentially the bolt for the crank pulley is off, but the damn crank pulley won't come off.. worryingly it also spins freely without whilst slightly off.. it's off about 10mm but can't for the life of me get the nadtard thing any further off..

Tried leverage tried to remove the timing cover but obviously can't...

Any advice or ideas as starting to loose all hope.. 🙁

#2 vocky

vocky

    Moderator

  • 11,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Earth

Posted 22 September 2019 - 05:36 PM

you need to pull the crank pulley off, then remove the oil pump/timing cover, remove the chains and replace the woodruff key.

 

Brute force is required to remove the crank pulley.

 

24424855 woodruff key @ £2.17 + vat + delivery from Autovaux

 

 



#3 tommobot

tommobot

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Stratford Upon Avon

Posted 22 September 2019 - 08:16 PM

I've got s new key in anticipation..

Is there a set approach for pulley removal? I've only really tried leverage so far, there really doesn't seem to be enough space to physically pull it off..

Otherwise it's looks like engine physically out.. 😟

#4 Johnboyhgt

Johnboyhgt

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,114 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:York

Posted 22 September 2019 - 08:47 PM

3 leg puller would be the best bet.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk



#5 tommobot

tommobot

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Stratford Upon Avon

Posted 22 September 2019 - 08:50 PM

Looking again of photos of the Woodruff key in situ, it looks like it only protrudes about 10mm past the timing gear...

Therefore I would have thought it must be near to point of sliding off....

#6 chris_uk

chris_uk

    I Fancy Joe

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,875 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Leeds UK

Posted 23 September 2019 - 05:37 PM

Just use a prybar and pry it in one place, then push it back on pry it in the opposite side etc etc..

Almost wobble it side to side and it will come off.

#7 vocky

vocky

    Moderator

  • 11,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Earth

Posted 24 September 2019 - 06:45 AM

another option is to clean out the M8 threads on the crank pulley and use three M8 bolts to force the pulley off



#8 tommobot

tommobot

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Stratford Upon Avon

Posted 24 September 2019 - 07:58 AM

I thought about doing that.. I'll try the pry bar method again and then go from there..

Only issue with using the bolts on the pulley would be that I'd be screwing against the timing cover as I haven't enough space to get anything substantial behind.. suppose maybe I could use a thin offcut of metal..

#9 vocky

vocky

    Moderator

  • 11,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Earth

Posted 24 September 2019 - 04:32 PM

the bolts hit the oil seal raised section, ideally you should use some sort of flat thin metal to protect the alloy casing



#10 tommobot

tommobot

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Stratford Upon Avon

Posted 24 September 2019 - 10:32 PM

So finally got the damn thing off..

I had a collection of rather large pry bars that didn't do the job.. got a monster crowbar and it slowly levered itself off..

Only remaining issue is that the remnants of the old Woodruff key appear to be bent / holding on the lower gears, but nothing a little chizling won't sort..

Anyone have a crank pulley knocking about?

#11 vocky

vocky

    Moderator

  • 11,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Earth

Posted 25 September 2019 - 06:54 AM

I sold all my engine spares to member - evocarlos, which included two brand new crank pulleys, send him a message on here



#12 tommobot

tommobot

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Stratford Upon Avon

Posted 25 September 2019 - 09:35 AM

Nice one, will do..

Next issue, because I'm an absolute donkey I realised I've taken the chain off without the engine ( or bottom Woodruff key) facing tdc...

I can reassemble the chain, the cam sprocket on fit in 1 location? And the just crank by hand to check all marks line through?

Or have I fubard it? 😲

#13 tommobot

tommobot

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Stratford Upon Avon

Posted 26 September 2019 - 07:50 AM

Bump... The more I think about it, the more I think my previous idea won't work.. 🙄

#14 Zoobeef

Zoobeef

    Joes bedroom assistant.

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,948 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Retford/Bovington

Posted 26 September 2019 - 11:33 AM

If you haven't turned it then you'll be able to put the chain back on.

If you have or aren't sure then put the pistons at the midway point and then turn the cams to the correct marks and then turn the crank to its mark and fit the chain.

The marks on the chain will take ages to line up if you just fit it and turn. (Hundreds of turns iirc)



#15 tommobot

tommobot

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Stratford Upon Avon

Posted 26 September 2019 - 12:37 PM

If you haven't turned it then you'll be able to put the chain back on.

If you have or aren't sure then put the pistons at the midway point and then turn the cams to the correct marks and then turn the crank to its mark and fit the chain.

The marks on the chain will take ages to line up if you just fit it and turn. (Hundreds of turns iirc)

 

Nope, I haven't turned it all..

 

Just taken chain straight off...

 

Woodruff key (which I think is TDC) is pointing to 3'o'clock.

 

On the basis that the cam' crank can only go in 1 place, and I can see the 'dot' on the bottom timing gear - Sounds like I will be ok then.. 



#16 vocky

vocky

    Moderator

  • 11,963 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Earth

Posted 26 September 2019 - 04:03 PM

I would just reset the timing as if you were replacing the timing chains, it's quicker and then you know it's 100%



#17 tommobot

tommobot

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Stratford Upon Avon

Posted 26 September 2019 - 04:28 PM

Hmmm ok?

So to get it correct in my head.. rotate cams so they point in the correct place?

How would I rotate the bottom crank of the engine, screw the big big bolt back in and crank it over?

Get Woodruff key facing tdc..

I could rotate the cams separately, but surely to get them exactly correct then I would be going on links of the chains?

Getting out of my comfort zone slightly, but how could I ensure the cams are correctly positioned?

When I replaced the chain originally it was almost replace like for like and just checking the marks aligned..

#18 TheHood

TheHood

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 972 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Midlands
  • Interests:World domination, a liking of unconvincing disguises, Malaysian temple restoration and nice words like "flange".

Posted 26 September 2019 - 07:32 PM

For the cams you want to get the lobes on cyl 1&4 facing upwards - they'll naturally want to sit in this position and will only need a bit of movement from there to get the chain marks to line up. It doesn't matter if you rotate them independently as long as the end up in the right place and the marks on the chain combined with the marks on the cam sprockets mean you can't go wrong really.

For the crank take the spark plugs out if you haven't already and as you say use the crank pulley bolt to turn.

#19 Mat Jackson

Mat Jackson

    Billy No Mates

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,417 posts
  • Location:Cardiff

Posted 28 September 2019 - 07:48 AM

Make sure you get the crank in a position with all pistons mid stroke first before rotating cams....
You don’t want to turn the cams and clash a valve with a piston. Here’s what I would do:

1). Check current position of pistons by checking position of crank with pulls and timing marks.
2). Confirm position by removing spark plugs and looking down each hole.
3). If still unsure, cut 4 pieces of wooden dowel the same length and drop them into each plug hole to rest on the pistons. This will show positions visually.
4). Rotate crank to get all pistons level - ensuring the highest go down and not up first to protect valves.
5). Rotate cams into no1 Tdc position - marks on cam sprockets will show this.
6). Rotate crank to no1 tdc, either by timing marks or dowels.

To rotate the crank, use a spanner on the crank bolt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

#20 tommobot

tommobot

    Need to get Out More

  • PipPipPipPip
  • 953 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Stratford Upon Avon

Posted 28 September 2019 - 03:50 PM

Make sure you get the crank in a position with all pistons mid stroke first before rotating cams....
You don’t want to turn the cams and clash a valve with a piston. Here’s what I would do:

1). Check current position of pistons by checking position of crank with pulls and timing marks.
2). Confirm position by removing spark plugs and looking down each hole.
3). If still unsure, cut 4 pieces of wooden dowel the same length and drop them into each plug hole to rest on the pistons. This will show positions visually.
4). Rotate crank to get all pistons level - ensuring the highest go down and not up first to protect valves.
5). Rotate cams into no1 Tdc position - marks on cam sprockets will show this.
6). Rotate crank to no1 tdc, either by timing marks or dowels.

To rotate the crank, use a spanner on the crank bolt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I understand some of that, but can't quite get my head round all of it..

Can I cause damage if the timing is out turning bits by hand?.. i.e adjusting crank and cam position?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users