153 replies to this topic

[FLD]

Yeah, I know. Someone had to start this topic though

Seriously, with a choice of bojo the clown or Corbyn the post-turtle wtf are we going to do?

Batman for PM?

[Ivor]

Ignore party lines , vote for your best candidate, one who stands up to scrutiny

[C8RKH]

I'm sorry but it has to be anyone but Comrade Corbyn if you have any feelings for the country. If he gets in everyone is fooked. At least with Bojo half the country will be ok.

Corbyn, Bojo and Swinson. And to think, we laughed at the 'Muricans and Trump!

Edited by C8RKH, 05 November 2019 - 11:15 AM.

[techieboy]

Indeed, it's a chuffing mess. Politics is just toxic since that referendum.

On a constituency level, Bedford (I think I'm still in there although proposed boundary changes move me into a different one where the Tory MP has just quit) mirrored the exact 52/48 Brexit vote and it's yoyo'd back and forth between Conservative and Labour recently. Think the current Labour MP had a majority of <2,000 votes in the last election so predict many visits to the town/businesses from the big hitters trying to drum up support. Council itself has been NOC for decades with LibDem's currently the largest party and with a directly elected LibDem mayor so quite a big LibDem presence locally but they've not really registered in General elections.


I'm one of the seemingly rare Conservative (somewhat ambivalent) Remainers. Bar the last Euro vote, the first PCC vote and a couple of our local directly elected mayoral elections, I've voted Conservative all the way back to Maggie's last term. Struggling to want to lend the Conservative's my vote this time though. Not because I'm especially anti-Brexit (I'm well resigned to us leaving and just want it over and done with) but because, despite Boris being a traditional "One Nation" liberal type Tory, it's hard to deny that the party is currently veering too far to the right and is in thrall to some of the fcukwit ERG types and Cummings' (very very clever and slightly scary guy) control. Austerity was necessary post '08 but they've dragged it out for too long but I'm not sure Boris' "spaffing" plans of the last month or two are entirely economically literate/sensible. I'm not overly enamoured by the parliamentary behaviour of some of the ultra remainers in the party but Francois, you're a weapons grade twat and should be deselected or the entire media should "no-platform" you for everyone's sanity. Donald Tusk may well have been right about a "special place in hell" for him and a couple of the other ultra-leavers.

I dread a Momentum/Len McCluskey controlled Labour party victory and all of their 1970's class war rhetoric. The thought of Corbyn and worse still McDonnell in charge is a chilling thought and potentially as economically dangerous as the hardest of Brexit's. I could never vote for them in their current guise, especially with the sneering condescending dollop that is Thornberry heckling and rolling her eyes at everything anyone says or Rebecca Wrong-Daily spouting ill thought through rubbish. I've absolutely no idea what their Brexit position really is and I'm not sure they do either. I'm pretty sure even remaining in the EU doesn't meet Starmers "tests". I'm just waiting for the manifesto's to be published and them wittering on with the "our manifesto is fully costed" shite again. Yes, maybe it is fully costed (although probably from the Abbott school of accounting) but that's far from it being fully funded. Scarily for me, I could imagine toying with the idea of voting for an old fashioned "New Labour" centre left style party even if that meant Tony Blair ( ). But this lot? No way.

I'd rather drag my nutsack across a rusty cheese grater than vote for any of Farage's firm and their nonentity candidates that just seem to have been randomly selected based on their postcode and whether they've paid a membership fee. I see three or four of them have already withdrawn their candidacies. I'm really struggling to understand what Farage is doing, he's not going to get any kind of Leave alliance, especially if he's demanding Boris drops the proposed withdrawal agreement up front and he really is risking no Brexit at all by fielding candidates everywhere other than in places with ERG Tories. I reckon after the election, he's probably off to be Trumps chief of staff or to help in Trumps re-election campaign. I think Richard Tice is probably the only genuinely reasonable/electable politician they have and he should probably just pack it in and defect back to the Conservatives.

Logically, that leaves me with the Lib Dems then. But, I don't think I can do it. If Clegg were still there I could see myself putting a cross in their box for this election. If Ed Davey had one the leadership election, I could possibly do it. But, not with Swinson. Her screechy Scottish accent continually harping on about "peoples vote" has done for me, I'm just exhausted by it and despise the phrase. And that was before her stupid comment about how she'd ignore the result of a second referendum if it didn't go her preferred way. They've been wittering on about how this election isn't a Brexit election but until this morning when they too have resorted to giving the magic money tree a shake, that's all they can talk about. Playing the sexism card and stamping up and down on the spot about televised debates doesn't help either. Locally, voting for them probably means that it will guarantee the current Labour MP is re-elected unless there's a swing of unprecedented size from both Conservative and Labour to them.

The only thing I'm thankful for is that I'm not in Scotland and don't have to cope with Sturgeon 24/7. She and Blackford already get way too much airtime down here where their blathering means nothing to 92% of the population.

Politically homeless, that's me currently.

[paul_mck]

you wanna be NI if you think politics is toxic, we seem to find new ways to pi55 over democracy on a daily basis.

 

Its a shame that the GE is going to be fought on brexit. Id have though a second ref was the only way to accurately put brexit to bed, THEN have a GE on actual policies and other grown up stuff.

[rob999]

I’m all for going with Diane Abbott 😄😄😄

I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels politically homeless.

[oblomov]

 Cummings' (very very clever and slightly scary guy) control.

Not all that clever, he has no real original ideas if you read his blogs, it's all stuff he's taken on board from other people.

 

Presently I feel disenfranchised.

Edited by oblomov, 05 November 2019 - 02:11 PM.

[Strugs]

 

Its a shame that the GE is going to be fought on brexit. Id have though a second ref was the only way to accurately put brexit to bed, THEN have a GE on actual policies and other grown up stuff.

 

 

[oblomov]

 

 

Its a shame that the GE is going to be fought on brexit. Id have though a second ref was the only way to accurately put brexit to bed, THEN have a GE on actual policies and other grown up stuff.

 

 

 

I agree.  This election was a bad idea because if -  Boris “Piccaninny Watermelon Letterbox Cake Bumboys Vampires Haircut Wall-Spaffer Spunk-Burster fcuk-Business fcuk-The-Families Get-Off-My-fcuking-Laptop Girly-Swot Big-Girl’s-Blouse Chicken-Frit Hulk-Smash Noseringed-Crusties Death-Humbug Technology-Lessons Surrender-Bullshit French-Turds” Johnson (acknowldgement to Stewar Lee comedian) gets in, it will be an immediate hard Brexit.  Now we all know the true implications of Brexit, more informed choices are there to be made.

[paul_mck]

I always consider how you would manage this process as a business - you would have performed a risk assessment prior to the shareholder vote, with concrete options. You would also be willing to adjust trajectory or even pull the pin if it wasnt in the best interests of the business. Fail fast and all that.

 

It always felt like asking your kids what they want for dinner and they say moon cheese then you spend all day trying to find moon cheese even though you know its impossible and in the end you build a rocket to fly to the moon even though the rocket is made of toilet roll holders and the moon isnt actually made of cheese.

[techieboy]

 

 Cummings' (very very clever and slightly scary guy) control.

Not all that clever, he has no real original ideas if you read his blogs, it's all stuff he's taken on board from other people.

 

I think you undersell him there. He was clever enough to recognise the importance of really granular analytics and micro targetting of the "message" pre-referendum. He might not be able to mine that data himself but he's clever enough to get the right people in to analyse that data, no matter how convoluted the source might have been, to give him/them the answers they needed then and probably again now. Keeping this campaign to as close to a single issue, despite Boris' inclination to promise everything to everyone, will be key for them and you can bet he's micro-managing any and all communications that come out of the party machine and carefully testing policy ideas via the old "Downing Street sources" channel. Woe betide anybody that doesn't toe the line.

 

Assuming Brexit does happen, it'll be nice to see him heading for the hills again.

[coldel]

 

 

 Cummings' (very very clever and slightly scary guy) control.

Not all that clever, he has no real original ideas if you read his blogs, it's all stuff he's taken on board from other people.

 

I think you undersell him there. He was clever enough to recognise the importance of really granular analytics and micro targetting of the "message" pre-referendum. He might not be able to mine that data himself but he's clever enough to get the right people in to analyse that data, no matter how convoluted the source might have been, to give him/them the answers they needed then and probably again now. Keeping this campaign to as close to a single issue, despite Boris' inclination to promise everything to everyone, will be key for them and you can bet he's micro-managing any and all communications that come out of the party machine and carefully testing policy ideas via the old "Downing Street sources" channel. Woe betide anybody that doesn't toe the line.

 

Assuming Brexit does happen, it'll be nice to see him heading for the hills again.

 

 

He simply copied the Russians...

[coldel]

I live in Richmond, the Surrey version which was Lib Dem then moved back to the quite deplorable Zac Goldsmith by 45 votes I think it was. Could easily go back the other way due to the Remain stronghold that it is.

 

I also despise the fact that Johnson has tried to legitimise himself as a PM by making this a Brexit election - Johnson is in no way fit for purpose, he is not a leader, not a diplomat, not capable of reasoned debate without shouting over his opponent. I get that to some degree every MP will have their own career at heart, but on that scale Johnson surpasses every other MP there is - he makes decisions that are best for him personally, never for the best of the country. Straight out the Trump school of blame deflection.

 

But, Christ, who can honestly vote that might propel Corbyn to power - it's like choosing whether to be executed by shotgun or pistol to the head for this election. 

 

Politics really is in desperate, sad, miserable times.

Edited by coldel, 05 November 2019 - 02:55 PM.

[paul_mck]

Ive no love for Corbyn but the smear campaign against him seems insane

[techieboy]

you wanna be NI if you think politics is toxic, we seem to find new ways to pi55 over democracy on a daily basis.
 
Its a shame that the GE is going to be fought on brexit. Id have though a second ref was the only way to accurately put brexit to bed, THEN have a GE on actual policies and other grown up stuff.

 
I'm just not sure another referendum solves the issue. It might solve Brexit itself, if there was a remain result but that would absolutely not fix the divisions in the country and political system and would likely make it worse with leavers, arguably rightly, feeling they've been robbed by a system that didn't like them or the first result. If there were another leave vote, that would just bring the current parliamentary stalemate back into play as remain MP's do all they can to obstruct and ameliorate the leave process whilst promising to recognise the democratic process whilst empowering Farage and his mates again.
 
The people having a choice in the first place put us where we are today. There's an assumption that the people would make a "better" choice a second time around. Why would the results of a second referendum, if different, have any more legitimacy than the first? Why shouldn't we have a third one three years further down the line to placate those who "lost" any second referendum and are now even better informed? Will the answers to whatever question is posed be loaded in one way or the other especially by splitting a "leave" vote? Will the franchise be the same or will it be adjusted suit the preferred result? Will there be referendums on any new EU treaties that might change our relationship with the EU to a degree that alters the Remain/Leave equation? All smacks a little of the SNP.
 
The best solution would have been for Theresa May to have written an A50 revocation letter and faxed it to Brussels, 15 minutes before she walked out of No 10 for the last time. It's not like anyone would have hated her any more than they already did.

[techieboy]

He simply copied the Russians...

Like I said, he was clever enough to get experts in.....

[coldel]

 

He simply copied the Russians...

Like I said, he was clever enough to get experts in.....

 

 

[paul_mck]

 

you wanna be NI if you think politics is toxic, we seem to find new ways to pi55 over democracy on a daily basis.
 
Its a shame that the GE is going to be fought on brexit. Id have though a second ref was the only way to accurately put brexit to bed, THEN have a GE on actual policies and other grown up stuff.

 
I'm just not sure another referendum solves the issue. It might solve Brexit itself, if there was a remain result but that would absolutely not fix the divisions in the country and political system and would likely make it worse with leavers, arguably rightly, feeling they've been robbed by a system that didn't like them or the first result. If there were another leave vote, that would just bring the current parliamentary stalemate back into play as remain MP's do all they can to obstruct and ameliorate the leave process whilst promising to recognise the democratic process whilst empowering Farage and his mates again.
 
The people having a choice in the first place put us where we are today. There's an assumption that the people would make a "better" choice a second time around. Why would the results of a second referendum, if different, have any more legitimacy than the first? Why shouldn't we have a third one three years further down the line to placate those who "lost" any second referendum and are now even better informed? Will the answers to whatever question is posed be loaded in one way or the other especially by splitting a "leave" vote? Will the franchise be the same or will it be adjusted suit the preferred result? Will there be referendums on any new EU treaties that might change our relationship with the EU to a degree that alters the Remain/Leave equation? All smacks a little of the SNP.
 
The best solution would have been for Theresa May to have written an A50 revocation letter and faxed it to Brussels, 15 minutes before she walked out of No 10 for the last time. It's not like anyone would have hated her any more than they already did.

 

 

I see what youre saying, I dont think it should have been a vote in the first place. A huge number of people will have voted emotionally which is not good for something of this scale. At the time everyone was promised all sorts and I still maintain that f**king bus has a lot to answer for. We elect MPs to make these decisions for us, let them do it.
 

Ill just leave this here:

 

[fiveoclock]

I live in Richmond, the Surrey version which was Lib Dem then moved back to the quite deplorable Zac Goldsmith by 45 votes I think it was. Could easily go back the other way due to the Remain stronghold that it is

Not if the Lib Dem candidate is still Gollum (or Sarah Olney as she likes to be known). I'll never forget her impressive 5 minutes being interviewed by Hartley-Brewer!

[casino]

What’s liberal or democratic about the Lib Dem’s?