153 replies to this topic

[Ivor]

Lib Dems are saying they will cancel Brexit. Yeah like its just gonna go away then.

LibDems must have some serious block bookings with printers. Just had a Jo Swinson for God pamphlet through the door. Different to the Jo Swinson, your next PM pamphlet we got on Friday.

The way she behaves the next one will be a "Jo Swinson for milk monitor" pamphlet!

Just announced a remain pact in 60 seats with the greens and plaid cymru, add in 60 remain SNPs, plus say 10 remain NI MPs, random Tory remained, plus whatever MPs the lib Dems win then the maths get very interesting, especially with those voters who cannot vote Tory because of Boris Johnson ( like me) and those who cannot vote labour because of Jeremy. We could easily end up with a hung parliament with a remain majority. Interesting times

[techieboy]

I hate these pre-election pacts, they always feel very dishonest and feel like the electorates choice is being manipulated but that's the problem with largely single issue elections where the positions are polarised - it makes them easy to agree.

 

We're going to have another hung parliament anyway (and probably another general election within 18 months), I reckon. Conservatives will probably slightly increase their number of seats but not enough to have a working majority and with possibly less chance of getting the DUP on board in any reliable way. Tory MP's will be more inclined to follow the Whip on Brexit related business, than in the last parliament, given so many of the more "awkward" Tories have quit politics but they'll probably still be reliant on Labour rebels, assuming there's any of those left. Whether they'll be able to form a (barely) working minority government again remains to be seen. I suspect Corbyn and Swinson/Sturgeon will forget about all the nasty things they've said about each other and work together long enough to bring it down. Only stumbling block there is Corbyn and his desperation to be the PM and the distrust that engenders.

 

Farage needs to wind his neck in otherwise he's well and truly lost any version of his Brexit wet dreams. If he reckons it's BRINO now, a not even halfheartedly negotiated Labour agreement leaving us largely back in everything is going to look a whole lot less appealing to him and his acolytes. Given the amount of TBP candidates that have already withdrawn and offered support to Johnson's deal, I think he's got to have a rethink and just stand candidates in Labour leave but Tory hating constituencies in the hope he can reduce the Labour vote somewhat and give the Tory candidate at least a chance. He's still going to end up with no MP's, no seat at the negotiating table and very likely lose Brexit entirely.

 

Interesting times, indeed.

[techieboy]

I see Ian Austin has well and truly burnt his bridges with Labour, this morning. He really does despise Corbyn.

 

I wish Tom Watson would be as honest about his reasons for quitting too. He properly fcuked up with his rabid belief in Carl Beech but other than that, he's been a voice of reason and moderation on the opposition benches.

[jonnyboy]

Lib Dems are saying they will cancel Brexit. Yeah like its just gonna go away then.

LibDems must have some serious block bookings with printers. Just had a Jo Swinson for God pamphlet through the door. Different to the Jo Swinson, your next PM pamphlet we got on Friday.

The way she behaves the next one will be a "Jo Swinson for milk monitor" pamphlet!

Just announced a remain pact in 60 seats with the greens and plaid cymru, add in 60 remain SNPs, plus say 10 remain NI MPs, random Tory remained, plus whatever MPs the lib Dems win then the maths get very interesting, especially with those voters who cannot vote Tory because of Boris Johnson ( like me) and those who cannot vote labour because of Jeremy. We could easily end up with a hung parliament with a remain majority. Interesting times

Yes it's shaping up to be a lesson for the big parties. I think I will be voting libdem. I'd rather not spoil a ballot paper. I live in a safe Labour working class area but voted by a whopping 34% to leave!

Where does this leave your typical labour voter here? I think Brexit party and they have a strong chance of winning a seat here. Single issue party coming into a single issue election could be very disruptive for the two mains.

Labour really did miss a trick not persevering with trying to get rid of Corbyn it is really very frustrating. The old lads got his dander up at the moment but what a travesty it would be if he did get in. Right now whos the bookies favourite?

[Jetpilot]

I think the majority of people will be paying way more focus on individual candidates views than just party manifestos, which can only be a good thing, its been ragingly apparent that some politicians dont stand on party manifestos and will be very pleased or should i say hopeful we see them gone with their self serving attitudes.

 

I probably cant even be bothered to vote this time round, my last two have been completed wasted despite being in a majority, so whats the point 

[techieboy]

Annelise Dodds getting skewered by Andrew Neil on Politics Live over their plans for now £400bn in borrowing. Still trying to say it's not debt. The numbers do very much not stack up and she knows it. Oooh, that still doesn't include the £200bn national investment bank. Eeejits.

[techieboy]

Tory guy Zahawi not doing much better....

[PaulCP]

Labour really did miss a trick not persevering with trying to get rid of Corbyn it is really very frustrating. The old lads got his dander up at the moment but what a travesty it would be if he did get in. Right now whos the bookies favourite?

 

Yep, I think Labour would have walked it if they’d had the backbone to oust Corbyn

I for one am really hoping that he gets a bloody nose from all of this. He seemed to be oblivious in his speech yesterday to the fact that he has been the main architect for frustrating brexit.

 

I would also like to hear McDonnell’s answer should a reporter ask him which school he attended. For someone who wants to nationalise public schools would he admit that he attended one

Edited by PaulCP, 07 November 2019 - 01:34 PM.

[fiveoclock]

I live in Richmond, the Surrey version which was Lib Dem then moved back to the quite deplorable Zac Goldsmith by 45 votes I think it was. Could easily go back the other way due to the Remain stronghold that it is

Not if the Lib Dem candidate is still Gollum (or Sarah Olney as she likes to be known). I'll never forget her impressive 5 minutes being interviewed by Hartley-Brewer!

She won the seat in 2016 then only lost it in 2017 by 45 votes, its quite likely given the current political climate she will win it again if standing.

A mate of mine took me to a Lib Dem event in 2015 and Clegg was on stage with her, she had just joined and was like a rabbit in headlights, Clegg was utterly brilliant on stage though if you put aside some of what he was saying and just watch how good these people are at commanding an audience.

Irrelevant how many she lost it by. How fewer votes did she get after people saw her perform? Thousands and thousands.

[Jetpilot]

 

Labour really did miss a trick not persevering with trying to get rid of Corbyn it is really very frustrating. The old lads got his dander up at the moment but what a travesty it would be if he did get in. Right now whos the bookies favourite?

 

Yep, I think Labour would have walked it if they’d had the backbone to oust Corbyn

 

I for one am really hoping that he gets a bloody nose from all of this. He seemed to be oblivious in his speech yesterday to the fact that he has been the main architect for frustrating brexit.

 

I would also like to hear McDonnell’s answer should a reporter ask him which school he attended. For someone who wants to nationalise public schools would he admit that he attended one

 

 

I think its also blinding clear pretty much all politicians have the thickest skins known to man and points like the above are like water off a ducks back to them, Corbyn was ousted by the party but managed to get back in because of the unions and doesnt seem to care one bit the party and voters dont want him as their leader.

 

Swinson has been quoted as saying most mp's in parliament want her to be pm, you have to ask does she REALLY believe that or is it just campaign propaganda?

[jonnyboy]

Re Boris let's do this the other way around. Let's say the Conservatives win and get a big enough majority that they can actually function even with a few rebels.

Does anyone seriously think he's going to shoot for no deal? He doesn't want to be the fall guy if the poop hits the fan so I think in that situation he'll just retable his bill. He wants to be the PM that got Brexit done. This bit of the deal just smooths a path for another 2 or 3 years I think it's actually a bit misunderstood but the promised land of a post Brexit Britain won't actually arrive for 2 or 3 more years yet. There will be the transitional period which is already extended in most people's minds. I think he'll want a deal and then 5 years of relatively easy waffling over trade and trying to make life harder for working class people just like a proper Conservative

I really dont get the gut feeling that he himself is seeking no deal and with the results of the last vote it looks like that movement is pretty small within the party itself.

[JG]

Swinson and no Brexit 👍

[casino]

Swinson and no Brexit 👍

Vote for the woman who’ll trash your vote. Interesting.

[Ormes]

Conservatives are the only option really... For me anyway... Everyone needs to vote Conservative if only to stop some wanky alliance or that communist moron getting in.

[jonnyboy]

May be a bit of a Churchill scenario. Get Boris in to sort this specific task out and then Milliband kicks his arse at the next election. Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me. 

 

I think being a working class Northern type I am probably to some degree a bit brainwashed but I couldn't put a cross next to the blue bit on the form it would genuinely make me feel ill. I'm not kidding either! 

 

Will certainly be up watching the swingometer on this one though certainly the most interesting election in our generation I would say. 

[Jetpilot]

Re Boris let's do this the other way around. Let's say the Conservatives win and get a big enough majority that they can actually function even with a few rebels.

Does anyone seriously think he's going to shoot for no deal? He doesn't want to be the fall guy if the poop hits the fan so I think in that situation he'll just retable his bill. He wants to be the PM that got Brexit done. This bit of the deal just smooths a path for another 2 or 3 years I think it's actually a bit misunderstood but the promised land of a post Brexit Britain won't actually arrive for 2 or 3 more years yet. There will be the transitional period which is already extended in most people's minds. I think he'll want a deal and then 5 years of relatively easy waffling over trade and trying to make life harder for working class people just like a proper Conservative

I really dont get the gut feeling that he himself is seeking no deal and with the results of the last vote it looks like that movement is pretty small within the party itself.

 

I dont think he was ever working towards a no deal scenario as his preferred option, although i do think he would have been prepared to go through with no deal.

 

I also think he/we would have got a much better "deal" if "no deal" was left on the table and not scuppered by the Benn act, the Eu played a bit of a blinder that they had faith it would get taken off the table, just a shame the house of commons couldnt get behind that threat, it without doubt weakened our negotiating position but i think its clear with the last minute reopening and Boris giving ground it shows he wanted that agreement.

[jonnyboy]

Agreed. the Ben act is probably one of the dumbest things in all of this and unfortunately shows that Labour just don't have the ability to handle negotiations currently. 

 

Totally disagree with them that no deal is anything to be scared of. I've long said if you actually look at what no deal is it's only the start of a series of smaller and probably more effective negotiations. They probably had a draft zero WTA agreement ready to sign plus some kind of emergency cover for customs to keep everything rolling. All the talk of medicine shortages etc utter guff. 

 

At some stage in all this they are going to have to separate the house from the EU negotiations as people may forget that there is still a country to run! 

 

Personally I think we have a huge problem bubbling up in this country with dissafected youth. Look at the recent incidents of the police been set upon with fireworks and the total crime epidemic in London. These issues are way more important than some fannying about in Europe that even if people realise it or not ultimately will have no effect on them personally. In or out of the EU is just choosing the accent of the bloke that taxes you. 

 

I still think remain is the best option but I don't like the way it looks like we may have to get there. Choosing between getting remain by putting Corbyn in power has to be a very tough decision for remainers.

 

 

[coldel]

Agreed. the Ben act is probably one of the dumbest things in all of this and unfortunately shows that Labour just don't have the ability to handle negotiations currently. 

 

Totally disagree with them that no deal is anything to be scared of. I've long said if you actually look at what no deal is it's only the start of a series of smaller and probably more effective negotiations. They probably had a draft zero WTA agreement ready to sign plus some kind of emergency cover for customs to keep everything rolling. All the talk of medicine shortages etc utter guff. 

 

At some stage in all this they are going to have to separate the house from the EU negotiations as people may forget that there is still a country to run! 

 

Personally I think we have a huge problem bubbling up in this country with dissafected youth. Look at the recent incidents of the police been set upon with fireworks and the total crime epidemic in London. These issues are way more important than some fannying about in Europe that even if people realise it or not ultimately will have no effect on them personally. In or out of the EU is just choosing the accent of the bloke that taxes you. 

 

I still think remain is the best option but I don't like the way it looks like we may have to get there. Choosing between getting remain by putting Corbyn in power has to be a very tough decision for remainers.

 

I can see why the Benn act came about, because Boris isolated Parliament and was effectively going down a dictatorship route, Parliament reacted. Boris clearly thought he had enough (and Cummings would have advised on this) to force the Boris agenda through but he has lost so many votes (a record number by any PM) it has shown that for future PMs without a huge majority that Trump like politics doesnt work here. As you can probably tell, I am not Boris's number one fan! lol

 

No Deal is a bit of a false name, it is a deal, just not a negotiated one i.e. we fall straight into a WTO deal where we have to align with their rules until something else changes, if that doesn't work out for us, then our negotiating position looks catastrophic. But, it could work out, but really we are sticking a bullet in the revolver spinning the barrel and hoping for the best in my view.

 

Stuff like shortages is a very real thing - I work in a large retail group and there were a lot of senior people absolutely aghast at the governments ridiculous notion of just 'buy a load and store it' idea, and it is ridiculous. There was a lot of very worried execs across retail last month and food shortages were very much a reality to the point emails about it came around.

 

I agree on Corbyn, an utterly horrendous option - if someone not so cast from the 70s was in charge at Labour they would absolutely walk this election.  

[PaulCP]

 

 

I think being a working class Northern type I am probably to some degree a bit brainwashed but I couldn't put a cross next to the blue bit on the form it would genuinely make me feel ill. I'm not kidding either! 

 

Will certainly be up watching the swingometer on this one though certainly the most interesting election in our generation I would say. 

 
 You will have your reasons Jon which I would imagine have been thoroughly thought through.

However, as a Northerner myself (although I’ve lived in S Wales and East Anglia over the past 30 years) I do get frustrated with the mindset of some. I saw a Street interview on TV with some woman in her 50’s which went like this:-

 

Reporter “Would you mind indicating how you will vote in the forthcoming election living in a very pro Brexit town”

Woman “Labour of course”

Reporter “Why is that, do you think they will get Brexit done”

Woman “I dunno really, I always vote Labour”

Reporter “Why is that”

Woman “I dunno, it’s what I’ve always done because it was what my parents always did and my grandparents. I don’t think about it really I just vote Labour”

 

There are many like her around the country, in both camps. I can understand why to some extent coming from a steel & coal community but it really is time for people to become educated about how politics have evolved over the years and how the party’s have moved left and right over the years. Otherwise a lot of votes are wasted.

 

People need to vote for changing the future & stop living with their grievances of the past. What happened 30 & 40 years ago is in the past, it cannot be changed.

[FLD]

That shows that the problem with politics is the average voter.