153 replies to this topic

[paul_mck]

F**K Brexit - my Leon Cupra is stuck in Newcastle Upon Tyne port and now delayed for a month. Because of Brexit. They shoved as many cars as they could across the water before 31st Oct and now there is a massive backlog getting them delivered out to the dealers.

 

Its real folks.

[Jetpilot]

Agreed. the Ben act is probably one of the dumbest things in all of this and unfortunately shows that Labour just don't have the ability to handle negotiations currently. 

 

I would probably agree with Reese Mogg when asked about getting Labours support for Boris's deal, they are the opposition, they will oppose because thats what they do.

 

Labour/Corbyn have opposed everything put in front of them with regards to Brexit, maybe with good reason, however i thought it utterly ridiculous to claim they need more time to scrutinise the agreement when they openly said (or the majority) said they wouldnt vote for it anyway, what a complete waste of parliamentary time, hell they even said they wouldnt vote for it before Boris even came back with it, so why take up valuable sitting days discussing why you wouldnt vote for it rather than let the ones on the fence sit and have their questions/concerns answered then go to a vote. Its like someone coming round to look a at a Vx220 for sale, highlight every bad thing and say, well i wasnt going to buy it anyway i dont want a Vx220!

 

Obviously pretty apparent Labour/Corbyn have enjoyed the power of holding a minority government to account with the assistance of Bercow, hence why they denied the election 3 times, never went for a vote of no confidence etc I am pretty sure Corbyn knew he would be screwed at an election so was enjoying his 15 mins of fame.

 

I will pray nightly he doesnt get the surge he did last time.

Edited by Jetpilot, 08 November 2019 - 02:21 PM.

[jonnyboy]

One real travesty is that the MPs didn't have a free vote on all this Brexit stuff. It was a time when true representation for constituents not party political crap. Labour are in a pickle really as they are even if Compo doesn't like it a remain party and a lot of the key Labour areas (like where I live) were the ones that voted leave. I think if they are loosing votes it will be to the Brexit Party. 

 

Out of interest at the the election is anyone actually thinking of anything other than Brexit or are you listening to any of the other crap they are spouting on all sides about the miracles they are going to work? 

[hairy]

[casino]

May be a bit of a Churchill scenario. Get Boris in to sort this specific task out and then Milliband kicks his arse at the next election. Sounds like a reasonable compromise to me.

I think being a working class Northern type I am probably to some degree a bit brainwashed but I couldn't put a cross next to the blue bit on the form it would genuinely make me feel ill. I'm not kidding either!

Will certainly be up watching the swingometer on this one though certainly the most interesting election in our generation I would say.

David Milliband?
Now there’s a real Labour front man. Different league than that sleazy miserable git Corbyn.

[techieboy]

David Milliband?
Now there’s a real Labour front man. Different league than that sleazy miserable git Corbyn.

 

 

It won't happen, it'll take Labour 10 years to get rid of the festering boil that is Momentum. They've messed with the rules to ensure they hold the power of the internal structures of Labour for the foreseeable.  All those yummy mummies and put upon middle classes Guardianistas in the South East/London that thought it would be a jolly good wheeze to sign up and support that lovely harmless Corbyn 5 years ago have a lot to answer for.

[techieboy]

One real travesty is that the MPs didn't have a free vote on all this Brexit stuff. It was a time when true representation for constituents not party political crap. Labour are in a pickle really as they are even if Compo doesn't like it a remain party and a lot of the key Labour areas (like where I live) were the ones that voted leave. I think if they are loosing votes it will be to the Brexit Party. 

 

Out of interest at the the election is anyone actually thinking of anything other than Brexit or are you listening to any of the other crap they are spouting on all sides about the miracles they are going to work? 

 

I'm trying. Haven't found a calculator that has enough digits to handle Labours spending pledges though. It can barely handle Boris' spaffing, let alone McDonnell's.

 

The reality is, except for Labour (and a bit of blackmailing SNP) who are trying to obfuscate because their position is so confused, it's a single issue election whether we like it, or not.

[Ivor]

Lib Dems just lost it for me, taxing wealth not income to raise c £14bn to pay for child care from age 9 months, ie to subsidize people to have kids

[Jetpilot]

 

 

 

The reality is, except for Labour (and a bit of blackmailing SNP) who are trying to obfuscate because their position is so confused, it's a single issue election whether we like it, or not.

 

 

To spin off with the mention of SNP, how long will the SNP last if they dont get their second once in a lifetime referendum, from anything i have read, Scotland has been as bad as us in recent years with regards to a single issue election to the detriment of the services and governance etc?

[Ivor]

The reality is, except for Labour (and a bit of blackmailing SNP) who are trying to obfuscate because their position is so confused, it's a single issue election whether we like it, or not.

To spin off with the mention of SNP, how long will the SNP last if they dont get their second once in a lifetime referendum, from anything i have read, Scotland has been as bad as us in recent years with regards to a single issue election to the detriment of the services and governance etc?

And I suspect Scotland cannot afford independence, oil revenues dwindling and moving away from an oil economy anyway

[PaulCP]

 

 

The reality is, except for Labour (and a bit of blackmailing SNP) who are trying to obfuscate because their position is so confused, it's a single issue election whether we like it, or not.

To spin off with the mention of SNP, how long will the SNP last if they dont get their second once in a lifetime referendum, from anything i have read, Scotland has been as bad as us in recent years with regards to a single issue election to the detriment of the services and governance etc?

And I suspect Scotland cannot afford independence, oil revenues dwindling and moving away from an oil economy anyway

 

That won’t stop the lunatics that run their party!

[Ivor]

The reality is, except for Labour (and a bit of blackmailing SNP) who are trying to obfuscate because their position is so confused, it's a single issue election whether we like it, or not.

To spin off with the mention of SNP, how long will the SNP last if they dont get their second once in a lifetime referendum, from anything i have read, Scotland has been as bad as us in recent years with regards to a single issue election to the detriment of the services and governance etc?

And I suspect Scotland cannot afford independence, oil revenues dwindling and moving away from an oil economy anyway

That won’t stop the lunatics that run their party!

And of course if they cannot afford independence, then they are currently a financial drain on England and Wales, so cut them loose?

[paul_mck]

Is Wales "self sufficent"?

[Jetpilot]

 

 

 

 

The reality is, except for Labour (and a bit of blackmailing SNP) who are trying to obfuscate because their position is so confused, it's a single issue election whether we like it, or not.

To spin off with the mention of SNP, how long will the SNP last if they dont get their second once in a lifetime referendum, from anything i have read, Scotland has been as bad as us in recent years with regards to a single issue election to the detriment of the services and governance etc?

And I suspect Scotland cannot afford independence, oil revenues dwindling and moving away from an oil economy anyway

That won’t stop the lunatics that run their party!

And of course if they cannot afford independence, then they are currently a financial drain on England and Wales, so cut them loose?

 

 

Ive never understood the whole dont want to be under Westminsters control, but more than happy to bend over and accept whatever Brussels throws their way, there will be no devolution with Brussels. So for sure, cut them loose and give them another referendum, win and they have Brussels to moan at and blame everything on, loose again and SNP disappears like UKIP and the UK is back to working as one nation.

[jonnyboy]

Is Wales "self sufficent"?

 

I suspect Wales and Scotland are both self sufficient but in the case of Scotland you'd be loosing things like free uni and prescriptions very very quickly. So self sufficient yes but at the same quality of life? Nah! 

 

I adore Scotland I love my frequent trips up there and get to drive some good roads a few times a year but for all it's outstanding beauty and brilliant people it is a big field with a couple of cities in it. They have income to generate from renewables and tourism plus a good few years of oil but other than a few salmon fisheries and a bit of whisky Scotland is like Wales/Yorkshire/Cornwall etc etc it's all ultimately powered by London. As a Yorkshireman I wouldn't fancy been independent of London. It's a bit poor form on the SNPs part that they are demanding another vote so soon too. Yes they should have another chance to vote but not in the same generation as the last one. 

[Ivor]

Is Wales "self sufficent"?

Yes, we make billions exporting our rain to England

[TazN]

I've got my plan in place, for whatever the outcome is. I'm declaring my property a new nation or failing that I'm fcuking off to some far flung corner of the world to try and escape the endless BS.

I have no idea who I'd vote for, we never get any form of political correspondence and I would have to take anything with a couple kilos of salt if we did.

[C8RKH]

 

David Milliband?
Now there’s a real Labour front man. Different league than that sleazy miserable git Corbyn.

 

 

It won't happen, it'll take Labour 10 years to get rid of the festering boil that is Momentum. They've messed with the rules to ensure they hold the power of the internal structures of Labour for the foreseeable.  All those yummy mummies and put upon middle classes Guardianistas in the South East/London that thought it would be a jolly good wheeze to sign up and support that lovely harmless Corbyn 5 years ago have a lot to answer for.

 

It was more the young feckless kids that he promised free education, free everything too. He's doing it again with his "young people should not need to make their own way" statements and trying to give the vote to 16 and 17 year olds.

 

I'm a northern lad Jon. Born in Liverpool. Brought up in a council house. Comprehensive schooling. Doing OK for myself.  I have not voted Labour for about 10 years, think last time I voted was Blair's first term.  Been voting Tory since then for a number of reasons, but mainly because I believe they usually are better for the economy and growth, something we passionately need focus on irrespective of what we do with Brexit, and also because generally they keep the worst of the public sector excesses in check.  We need a strong and healthy public sector but if you leave it with Labour it becomes a bloated airship, full of lifers who's sole aim see's to be to do as little as possible and kept afloat by the hot air they exhale in defending their lack of action, accountability on anything and their defence of their excessive spending.

 

I hate this whole thing in the UK about "I'm from the north so labour" and "I'm from the south so tory" mentality. If that really is the case then the average vote does not deserve democracy!

 

I also hate this Labour versus Tory class divide, especially with regards to schooling.  Tony Blair's Labour government was full of Oxbridge entitled people, many of whom had gone there from prestigious private schools.  The whole bloody front bench was full of people who had done the fooking Politics, Philosophy, Economics or PP degrees.  The problem was they were all alike. Highly educated. Privileged backgrounds. Never had a real job. Straight into politics as a career. How were they really any different to Tories and if you look at where many of them have ended up after defeat, they have, like the Tories are always accused of, gone into publishing/finance/speaking/industry high paid fat cat jobs!  It's bloody criminal how this gets over looked.  The working person in the UK is getting completely hoodwinked by Labour and it's "for the workers" mantra. The fact is, over the past 35 years of my working career, the party that has done the best by me, as a working, working class person, is the Tories. Go figure!

 

It will take us 10 years to recover from a Labour Jeremy Corbyn government. Dave Miliband, hmm, depending on his policies and control over the party, I could see myself voting for him as long as his useless brother Ed was nowhere to be seen.

 

The Tories for me, seem to have lost the art of communication to the electorate. They have a lot to offer that many, many people would support around health, education, law enforcement, economy and trade. They would rip the Labour party to shreds. But only IF, they stopped ripping huge chunks out of each other and got focused behind the fact that a majority Tory government is the ONE THING that they should be securing!

 

The Tories might not throw as much money at the NHS as Labour would. But then they should not.  I'm sick and tired of hearing about the NHS and everyone whinging about how it needs more money. At what point do you stop just throwing money at it?  The NHS is wonderful. It's brilliant. But it is not efficient. It is wasteful. It is fractured and self serving. It needs to learn from within. Best practice at one hospital or clinic needs to be shared across all. Instead, we get everyone in the NHS trying to re-invent the wheel at a huge cost in both waste and financial terms. Why do we get GP's and the BMA talking about the privatisation of NHS services with disdain. When will the fooking useless, brain dead journalist, wake up and say "but ah, Mr. GP Farquhar Finlay, that's an interesting point you raise, as, ever since the inception of the NHS, GP's have been private businesses who contract their services to the NHS and employ Practice Managers to maximise their revenue. So are you saying that we should indeed, recover from the fatal flaw in Bevan's plans and vision, and finally bring GP services fully integrated in to, and a part of, our National Health Service?"

 

The quality of real debate and reporting in this country is now at, I believe, it's lowest level for over a century. Everything has been dumbed down and no one really asks the hard basic questions anymore, as that is hard and it is far easier to chase "celebrity" stories, including the likes of those around one of the biggest non celebs in the country, that clown Bercow!

 

God I love a good on a Monday. Haven't had one for ages lol....

[Ivor]

Nigel farage just put Boris back in number 10...

[sford]

 

 

David Milliband?
Now there’s a real Labour front man. Different league than that sleazy miserable git Corbyn.

 

 

It won't happen, it'll take Labour 10 years to get rid of the festering boil that is Momentum. They've messed with the rules to ensure they hold the power of the internal structures of Labour for the foreseeable.  All those yummy mummies and put upon middle classes Guardianistas in the South East/London that thought it would be a jolly good wheeze to sign up and support that lovely harmless Corbyn 5 years ago have a lot to answer for.

 

 

*total sense*

 

God I love a good on a Monday. Haven't had one for ages lol....

 

 

I think this in a nutshell, although I've always voted conservative. This privatisation of the NHS that everyone is going on about is smoke and mirrors. My wife and several friends work for the NHS and the amount of stories I hear of poorly managed, badly executed changes/upgrades to support services is eye-watering. In fact, the way budgets are set up is just plain daft. I hear of departments that have x left over so spend it on some extremely expensive piece of hardware that no one knows how to use and it just sits there not being used. I hear of software being purchased where to save a little bit of money they cut out a licence part that would have meant total integration to other systems, adding in a level of manual work that creates errors. 

 

How patient records are not part of some national database I do not understand. My wife had a thyroid issue years ago and they lost her records, never to be recovered. When we had our baby recently, they lost the notes twice (as in fully lost, start again type lost). When going about an eye infection she had, they didn't have access to her notes at one hospital as they had a different system to the other, cue lengthy discussions back and forth about posting (wtf, I mean I hope it was some sort of internal secure mail and not the Royal Mail) the notes between hospitals, all the while delaying treatment. 

 

The NHS is brilliant for saving lives when your life is on the line and it's an emergency. I've worn glasses all my life and as a youngster made many a trip for eye exams/ops and treatments. As an adult, I've gone privately for appointments as 1. it's not been life threatening and I don't feel that I should put that sort of pressure on a service that is clearly struggling and 2. it means that I haven't had to sit through the same levels of middle management and clerical errors that seem to have been so frequent in the other areas I've been exposed to the NHS. 

 

Back to the politics, it's funny but at work I'm exposed to a lot of grads. They all swing to the left, supporting Corbyn like he is the second coming. It's almost like they students are brainwashed into supporting him over the evil Tory empire*. 

 

*As they would put it. I for one think the class divide that is used to make people vote one way or another is so wrong. Just because you are from the North does not mean you have to vote Labour.

Edited by sford, 11 November 2019 - 12:21 PM.