153 replies to this topic

[coldel]

Looks like the Russians have been given the green light to crack on by Boris holding back the interference report

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...n-2019-50388879

 

Either that or Dianne Abbot has tried changing the password again...

[C8RKH]

Looks like the Russians have been given the green light to crack on by Boris holding back the interference report

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...n-2019-50388879

 

Either that or Dianne Abbot has tried changing the password again...

 

No, we're safe, it's a numerical password and Diane Abbot as we all know does not do numbers.

[jonnyboy]

Yeah there are undoubtedly a few trimmings but buying a central London property I highly doubt these days! Rent and staff wages are probably increasing by more than their pay too. In the old days it was an unwritten understanding they got to nail their expenses account obviously one duck pond too many saw an end to that. After the Expenses scandal I seem to recall there was a review of salaries of MPs that concluded it was a £120k PA level job. Obviously despite this being independently researched it wasn't taken up. I would guess a good few MPS swallow expenses from their salary in order to avoid coming to the attention of the papers when the details are released. 

 

It's a crap job and not one I would want to do.  

[C8RKH]

Does not need to be central London. I'm not doubting for a minute it is as lucrative as selling plastic cars but just merely pointing out it ain't JUST £76k a year. Great pension scheme and great loss of office resettlement schemes too.

I think the sad fact though is Jon that some people, Corbyn being one of them, have made a very nice living out of being an MP for 50 years.... There are lots on the Tory side too. And there are lots on both sides that don't need the cash on offer as they already have enough. Funny how no one plays the card about him buying and living in his ex council house either. He must have loved Thatcher secretly...

 

I have no idea who will win. All I hope for is a majority, so we get something done, and move on.

Edited by C8RKH, 12 November 2019 - 11:33 AM.

[coldel]

Boris will win with Farage handing him on a plate a free run at 60 odd seats. Whether he gets a majority though?

 

It is all rather clouded by Brexit though - this bizarre scenario where your stereotypical northern Labour voter going Tory because of Brexit when in fact Boris polices once (we assume) the withdrawal agreement is done early next year will be hugely damaging to industry and commerce in that part of the country...and will have 5 years of it.

[C8RKH]

Boris will win with Farage handing him on a plate a free run at 60 odd seats. Whether he gets a majority though?

 

It is all rather clouded by Brexit though - this bizarre scenario where your stereotypical northern Labour voter going Tory because of Brexit when in fact Boris polices once (we assume) the withdrawal agreement is done early next year will be hugely damaging to industry and commerce in that part of the country...and will have 5 years of it.

 

Why will they be hugely damaging? After all, everyone says the economy in the North is dead anyway.

 

But I live up' North. I have friends who run businesses up North and they are currently having the best quarters of their businesses lifetime - quarter on quarter of smashing targets. 

 

There is plenty of money in the North and plenty of wealth being created, people just don't shout about it like they do down South where everyone obsesses about house values and talks them up, whilst simultaneously whinging about how their kids cannot afford to buy. No sh*t Sherlock - maybe if their parents had not been fuelling a housing arms race then things would be different.

 

The North is in transition and has been for some time. Traditional large scale manufacturing is gone and so a large number of jobs have been lost.  Some of them have been recovered by the service sector, but not all.  However, the North is also alive with small, well run, entrepreneurial businesses that actually have been very innovative, very nimble and do OK. More so than maybe a lot of firms in the South who have under invested and whose owners often take out more cash for the lifestyle.

 

The North would benefit from a decentralised approach to Government for sure. HMRC centralising a lot around Telford worked well, and we need to move a lot of the day to day running of functions away from London. Yes, the Exec will always be based in London, but move the volume of the jobs North to spread the public pound spend more evenly across the country. There are a lot of skilled, bright people in the North who would be cheaper and dare I say better than the many people employed in London in these functions. Use the opportunity of the move North to slice and carve out the dead wood. There is enough demand to swallow these people up IF they are prepared to evidence their value to new employers.

 

You say the Tories will not benefit the North, well, remind me, just how well did the previous Labour government serve the North over it's 10 year term? What fantastic achievements did they deliver for the North? What additional jobs and industries did they create or move there to replace the falling manufacturing/mining/etc jobs that traditional had been there? How did the previous Labour government protect the fishermen and the coastal jobs and lifestyles in places like Hull, Grimsby and Newcastle?  What did they do in Lancashire, Cumbria and Northumberland. Let me give you a hint, they largely did sweet FA. Tell you what, what DID Andy Birnam the now Labour Mayor of Manchester actually do for Manchester when he was in power?

 

There is a lot of romantic tosh about Labour and it's northern heartlands. You may be too young to know about how the militant left under Derek Hatton ripped the industrial heart away from places like Liverpool. They turned it into a "no go" area for internal and overseas investment for almost 20 years. That was Labour and the "looney left". Fook all to do with the Tories, they just took the Unions on there as they understood that falling productivity and poor quality was killing industry but the unions refused to allow new working practices or change. I could tell you some stories from those days and what was going on in the left run town hall that would make your toes curl! If the Tories had just left them to it the death of industry in Liverpool would have taken longer, it would have been long, slow, painful, withering death. But death all the same. 

 

I've seen written here how our economy is dead - funny, today's press are reporting the second biggest growth this quarter in Europe, ahead of Germany, and moving us away from recession territory. Despite Brexit and the total mess, we are growing! Wow. My god, if the politicians had stopped fannying around for the past three years how much more could we be growing? We will never know.

 

Labour long ago stopped being the voice of the working man in my very humble opinion. The Unions are in the dark ages and through Corbyn and Momentum they are desperate to seize power, to re-write the rule book, and to restore their own positions as power brokers at the top table. Again, this has nothing to do with the average working man, and everything to do with the leftish elite clinging on to what power they have left and seeking to grow it and seize it.  The Union bosses are so far removed from the coal face it is unreal. They cacooned in their own private world, many of them operating and being treated like CEO's in the 70's with their grand offices and chiefs of staff and PA's etc. 

 

New Labour, with the more centrist leaning got the balance for the working man better. Many things they did so well. The two wars and Blairs lying is what undid them. They lost their way and the trust of the people. Maybe we need a Tory landslide this time. A humiliating defeat with Labour in 3rd behind the resurgent LibDems would be enough to oust Corbyn and for the centrists to regain control from momentum, hopefully with someone sensible and immensely electable like David Miliband in charge.

 

You think the next 5 years are going to bad under the Tories. My god, just wait and see if Corbyn gets in as to how bad things really can get.  I think at that point, me, a hardened Brexiteer, will be packing up and moving to France or Germany. :0

Edited by C8RKH, 12 November 2019 - 12:42 PM.

[coldel]

I think you misunderstood, I never said commerce in the north is dead (it seems you have taken the comment very personally and put it into book form above) I said that post-WA I wouldn't expect the Tories under Boris to actively drive commerce in that part of the country. I also never said Corbyn will be any better.

 

The issue is that Brexit is clouding voters longer term views, about what that party is planning for them, and totally focused on the exit deal (which will be done in January) and as an anti-establishment vote with BP out of the equation in many areas. Regardless of all those observations you have made, I would ask the question, what is it about the Tories that will benefit certain parts of the north of England aside from a PM 'that will get Brexit done' (again)? What policy areas encourage the most? And not to mention Brexit, what is it that the Tory party stand for that will make people in these areas richer for it?

 

[PaulCP]

Corbyn’s hypocrisy, I always remember the photo of him stood on stage at Glastonbury a few years ago telling kids, who can afford £230 per ticket to see millionaires sing, that capitalism has failed them

 

Edited by PaulCP, 12 November 2019 - 01:24 PM.

[C8RKH]

I think you misunderstood, I never said commerce in the north is dead (it seems you have taken the comment very personally and put it into book form above) I said that post-WA I wouldn't expect the Tories under Boris to actively drive commerce in that part of the country. I also never said Corbyn will be any better.

 

The issue is that Brexit is clouding voters longer term views, about what that party is planning for them, and totally focused on the exit deal (which will be done in January) and as an anti-establishment vote with BP out of the equation in many areas. Regardless of all those observations you have made, I would ask the question, what is it about the Tories that will benefit certain parts of the north of England aside from a PM 'that will get Brexit done' (again)? What policy areas encourage the most? And not to mention Brexit, what is it that the Tory party stand for that will make people in these areas richer for it?

 

Not personally, just wanted to point out that everyone claims that Labour are for the North and I just do not get it as at best it is 20 years out of date but realistically 70 years! Corbyns Labour and their union backers seem to think that people are working in the dark ages and that is just not true.

 

I'm not trying to say the Tories would be any better by the way, just making the point that Labour are not and never really have been the saviours of the North as they have destroyed as much industrial activity as the Tories. They are both as bad as each other.

 

I believe you are talking sense in several areas, but you are also being clouded by "headlines". You mentioned about the grads and zero working hours contracts. The BBC ran a interesting web piece about the jobs people do https://www.bbc.co.u...n-2019-50345761   You mentioned about the rise of zero hours contracts like it was a contagion - yet, according to the socialist broadcasting corporation around 900k people in the UK are onj zero hours contracts . About half the number of part time workers in total and similar to the number of involuntary part time workers.  That's about a 5th of the people working as self employed.  Yes the number of people on zero hours contracts went up, from around 200k to 850k in 2016, but since then it has flat lined. So again, despite all the "press" and soundbites, the facts don't support the hype and these days people don't bother to go and do the research themselves, they just grab the soundbites then go off singing "oh Jeremy Corbyn...." etc.  @PaulCP's comment is right, irony of Corbyn at Glastonbury was completely lost on so many people, it was like they just did not see it or realise it. And he was so gullable all he saw was fame and power...

 

Take the argument about graduate employment rates being so low - well, surely part of the problem is that we are turning out more graduates than ever before so surely the competition will be tougher? Hence the need to have a relevant degree AND experience to succeed?  But no, the issue raised is that it is awful, it's the governments fault. What bullshit. People will fall for anything they are told these days, again, because they are too lazy on average to put the effort in to find out the facts. In fact, if you look at the governments formal statistics, https://www.gov.uk/g...statistics-2018 , Graduate employment rate is sitting at 87.7% which is marginally higher than the post-grad rate at 87.4%. However, both of those rates are substantially higher than the non graduate employment rate of 71.6% - so actually graduate employment, despite the extra thousands we aren churning out with non-relevant degrees, is historically in the top quartile - who'd have thought! So, having a degree does lead to better chances of employment and as per my previous point, no, these are not a majority of zero hours/part time jobs. So are they all working in Tesco's on the till? The answer is no, as at least 65-76 of grads/post-grads are in high skilled employment whereas was only 23%!  The graduates/post grads in in medium/low skilled jobs was 11-22%.  So again, we get the headline throw aways about graduates in zero hour/low income jobs on tills in Tesco's not actually being fully truthful, as the vast majority of them are in high skilled, well paying jobs with an average graduate salary of £34k against an average non-grad salary of £24k. Some of those are in Tesco's because they can't be arsed moving/fighting/applying for the better jobs. Some are of course there because there is nothing else for them, I do accept that. But they are not the majority by any shake of the stick.

 

Apologies, I am labouring the point.  I am sick and tired of people throwing out selective "stats" as "the truth" when the reality is far different. Hence my tirade earlier re the North. It's not grim up North. Labour or Tories are not the saviour of the North. Their respective policies could well make a big difference to the North (though just as you challenge me re how the Tory policies will benefit the North, I will push back and say well how will Labours? They haven't in the past....!).

 

Attitudes in this country to politics and geography are at best still stuck in the Victorian era, at worse, in the bloody caves of neanderthal man!  That's the real problem we have right now, and Brexit is two tribes of Neanderthals fighting over a rotten stinking corpse for todays dinner as opposed to sowing seeds to grow tomorrows food.

 

Phew. A Tuesday and a Monday one. My god, the wife will be asking for sex next!  ................................

Edited by C8RKH, 12 November 2019 - 02:12 PM.

[coldel]

I think you are having a general about lots of things that are on your mind which is fair enough, but not actually related to anything I said 

 

I'm a statistician by education and a research by trade, I don't take headlines at their face value in any state be it related to politics or otherwise. 

[Madmitch]

I think you must be an amazingly fast typist!!

[C8RKH]

I should be a secretary really!

 

Fairy nuff @coldel. You are probably right. I'm having a Raheem moment lol...

[coldel]

To be honest I have a fair bit to do this afternoon, and there is no way I can type at 100 wpm to possibly come back on half those points lol

 

I appreciate it looks like I am directing stuff straight at you (which its not meant to), I don't think you represent your average voter, the sh*t I see on facebook people sharing memes and all that, I do despair at the levels of understanding of the world people are voting on - for any side!

Edited by coldel, 12 November 2019 - 03:30 PM.

[techieboy]

I revel in my ignorance of whatever goes on on Twatbook, Fcukwitter and whatever else by not going anywhere near any of them. They can push as much dubiously funded and targetted shite as any of them like and I'm safe in the knowledge that I won't be fed any of it.

I might even buy a Huawei Spyphone Mate 30 Pro just because their apps are no longer baked into the phone ROM with no way to uninstall any of them, thanks to Trumps ban.

[C8RKH]

They don't need to have them baked on the ROM anymore as they just put them in the ROM of the Alexa etc. devices that are made in China without telling anyone. They hear everything you say, and the little cameras they put in every new LED bulb captures your every action. I mean man, not even tinfoil on your head works anymore.

 

I am only on Facebook for access to about 7 sights. Got my wife to set it up for me so I cannot be found/befriended/targeted by shite. I have the app but even bloody .org seems to get more action on facebook than on here.

 

But enough of this, I need to type another essay..........  Well, it's better than working after all... 

[techieboy]

I've got a Facebook account, courtesy of some wnaker in the USA who can't get to grips with his email address and used mine to register with. Even now, I still get sh!t for him. He's an ex-US Marine (I get some of his health and childcare stuff from the VA) and just today, I've received his user ID for FEMA and the DHS.

 

There's also a Doctor in a hospital in Australia that also apparently doesn't know his correct email address. I've had his hospital pension stuff before and still get invites to weekly medical case review meetings, at one point my calendar was full of them. He also has an under-14 son who plays Aussie rules football according to some of his emails I receive.

 

It's something to do with the way Google read email addresses, especially for those of us who've had Gmail addresses from the early days of El Goog.

[Nev]

Unless we pull out of Brexit this country is going to go down hill badly for 10+ years.

 

I've just joined an American company with a possible view of getting my green card and moving over there. I remember when the $ to £ was 2.00, now its getting close to 1.2 - nearly halved in value in just 27 odd years.

Edited by Nev, 12 November 2019 - 06:40 PM.

[C8RKH]

Unless we pull out of Brexit this country is going to go down hill badly for 10+ years.

 

I've just joined an American company with a possible view of getting my green card and moving over there. I remember when the $ to £ was 2.00, now its getting close to 1.2 - nearly halved in value in just 27 odd years.

 

Really? Good luck in the US. 1 weeks notice. No employee protection. No NHS to fall back on. 1 major sickness away from bankruptcy. Mass shootings (though to be fair we have more knife crime).

 

I've worked for several US companies, have employed people over there too. The US is a great place to live, work and have fun if you have three things  (1) money (2) health (3) a damned fine and dandy employer medical plan.  If not, you're fooked worse than the UK with the entire EU butt-fooking it.

 

But hey, I might be wrong.  Good luck dude.

[Zoobeef]

It was $2 to the £ in around 2007.

 

Knife crime in the US is still worse than ours.

[Nev]

 

Unless we pull out of Brexit this country is going to go down hill badly for 10+ years.

 

I've just joined an American company with a possible view of getting my green card and moving over there. I remember when the $ to £ was 2.00, now its getting close to 1.2 - nearly halved in value in just 27 odd years.

 

Really? Good luck in the US. 1 weeks notice. No employee protection. No NHS to fall back on. 1 major sickness away from bankruptcy. Mass shootings (though to be fair we have more knife crime).

 

I've worked for several US companies, have employed people over there too. The US is a great place to live, work and have fun if you have three things  (1) money (2) health (3) a damned fine and dandy employer medical plan.  If not, you're fooked worse than the UK with the entire EU butt-fooking it.

 

But hey, I might be wrong.  Good luck dude.

 

 

It has it's drawbacks for sure, but as you say, if you're in the top half of society (based on your 3 items) it is a great place. Most of the deprivation and violence etc is city/gheto based, once you get away from those areas life is much rosier.